maniac Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 So now a captain must teach our fielders how to catch? And next, our bowlers on how to bowl. :haha: Sure, Dhoni didn't have great captaincy but then the options available to him were very poor. Btw, we lost the series on poor batting, bowling was always a weakness and we were always gonna bank on our strength, batting. And ultimately, at the end of our series, it's our batting which has more questions marks whereas our bowling is still the constant, the same old questions. Did you read my post.....yes dropped catches were not the captains fault.....missed catches defintetely were
yoda Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 He must remain captain in all formats. As usual fellow ICF'ers failed to identify the real issue and blaming everything on captaincy. Yes he must stay as captain so we keep making brain dead selection decisions and keep following a disastrous process or whatever the feck he makes up.
someone Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Imo, if Dhoni does want to quit captaincy, he should just retire from test cricket. If I remember, he also mentioned few years back on how he doesn't think he has the capacity to play all three formats in the long run. This series is a good time for him to just retire from test cricket.
someone Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Did you read my post.....yes dropped catches were not the captains fault.....missed catches defintetely were Typical hindsight. That's not a good enough reason.
someone Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Yes he must stay as captain so we keep making brain dead selection decisions and keep following a disastrous process or whatever the feck he makes up. What selection decisions? Let's be clear in the starting day of each test match , majority of fans thought it was the right XI. You just believe that removing the captaincy from Dhoni will automatically make our batsman's play like Bradman. That's amazingly stupid. Remember, it's our batsman which is the main problem from this series.
CSK Fan Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 What selection decisions? Let's be clear in the starting day of each test match , majority of fans thought it was the right XI. You just believe that removing the captaincy from Dhoni will automatically make our batsman's play like Bradman. That's amazingly stupid. Remember, it's our batsman which is the main problem from this series. It is NOT this ONE series people are talking about. It is NOT this ONE series people are talking about. It is NOT this ONE series people are talking about It is THREE years of failure. And there is only so far you can blame everything else except captain. Last series bowlers were blamed. Now the captain. Where does it end? And what selection decision. Leaving out the best test bowler YADAV from the squad. One of the biggest blunder. Selecting 4 bowlers in the 3rd test.
CSK Fan Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 He must remain captain in all formats. As usual fellow ICF'ers failed to identify the real issue and blaming everything on captaincy. 3 years of failure in tests and real problem lies with everyone but the captain. Every player has been changed in 3 years except captain, yet problem is never with the captain. Win a world cup with amazing batting and bowling by likes of Yuvraj and best captain ever. I guess such blind fans deserve all the whitewash, problems will always lie elsewhere for them and they will rather make excuses for him than see team improve, they will blame youngsters in their first tour who have failed for the first time (like Pujara and Kohli) who have done good before and save someone who has failed for 3 years as a captain. This is their nature
Austin 3:!6 Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 3 years of failure in tests and real problem lies with everyone but the captain. Every player has been changed in 3 years except captain' date=' yet problem is never with the captain. Win a world cup with amazing batting and bowling by likes of Yuvraj and best captain ever. I guess such blind fans deserve all the whitewash, problems will always lie elsewhere for them and they will rather make excuses for him than see team improve[/quote'] Really?? If there was no Dhoni, lady Jaya would have been proudly sitting on the cup now. Our so called God had departed very early as usual and if it was not for MS our wait for WC continues
CSK Fan Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Really?? If there was no Dhoni, lady Jaya would have been proudly sitting on the cup now. Our so called God had departed very early as usual and if it was not for MS our wait for WC continues And if not for the same God or Yuvi, India would have crashed out much earlier exactly like in 2007, 2009, 92 and 99 and Lady Jaya still would have the cup It was a team effort And I was also talking about the T20 WC he was praised for I can see how you did not answer one single point about his faulire for 3 years now as a captain in tests. Dhoni fans will blame youngsters in their first tour who have failed for the first time (like Pujara and Kohli) who have done good before and save someone who has failed for 3 years as a captain. This is their true nature
Marut Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Really?? If there was no Dhoni, lady Jaya would have been proudly sitting on the cup now. Our so called God had departed very early as usual and if it was not for MS our wait for WC continues You are mixing apples and oranges, I mean test and ODIs. Dhoni is a ok captain in ODIs, his winning the WC has nothing to do with retaining him as our test captain.
CG Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Really?? If there was no Dhoni, lady Jaya would have been proudly sitting on the cup now. Our so called God had departed very early as usual and if it was not for MS our wait for WC continues :cantstop: Did u forget who was waiting to come the best player of the wc who won us the worldcup yuvraj singh.Gambo had already negotiated the tough phase and batting well so lets not inflate things.
CSK Fan Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Typical hindsight. That's not a good enough reason. Him nothing going for easy catches which all keepers would go for is hindsight now? :cantstop:
express bowling Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 According to Dhoni fans ... the losses are due to batsmen's failures or bowlers' failures only. So, similarly, when we have won, it is due to good performances of players. So, where does Dhoni , the captain, come in ?? What is Dhoni, the captain's, contribution to the team. Anybody can be the captain. I would really like to know from Dhoni fans.
Marut Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 According to Dhoni fans ... the losses are due to batsmen's failures or bowlers' failures only. So, similarly, when we have won, it is due to good performances of players. So, where does Dhoni , the captain, come in ?? What is Dhoni, the captain's, contribution to the team. Anybody can be the captain. I would really like to know from Dhoni fans. Captaincy is a somewhat overrated ability. Great captains bring out the best from their teams, but they can't do more than this. And Dhoni does not belong to this category of captains. Dhoni as a player in the team can neither win a match for his team with the bat or the ball - that is where his weakness as a captain is. No team member will look upon Dhoni as a test role model and so Dhoni can't motivate the team by setting an example.
zep1706 Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Captaincy is a somewhat overrated ability. Not in test cricket. A captain makes a huge difference to an average side. If you are a side like Australia of 2000s then it's a different story.
Crookbond Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Not in test cricket. A captain makes a huge difference to an average side. If you are a side like Australia of 2000s then it's a different story. A captain can get from average to average+, an odd series win here & there. You can't go from average to good.
maniac Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 A captain can get from average to average+' date=' an odd series win here & there. You can't go from average to good.[/quote'] Simple,You replace Dhoni with a good captain and a better Keeper,means more often than not oppositions will score atleast 50-100 runs lesser thanks to catches not being missed. That will more than compensate for the 30's and 40's dhoni will score in a pointless "back to the wall" kind of situation.
Marut Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Not in test cricket. A captain makes a huge difference to an average side. If you are a side like Australia of 2000s then it's a different story. A captain cannot compensate inferior player abilities. He can motivate and bring out the best and make the whole bigger than the sum of its parts. Where Dhoni has lost, almost every other possible candidate would have lost, though the margins may have been lower. Our team sucks, and along with Dhoni's captaincy we are losing because we are not a good side - we would loose under any captain. A team that is continually slumping to 60/6 (like now) and refuses to cross 300 (in 2011) cannot win with any captain, whether it be Steve Waugh or Clive Lloyd. The less be said about our bowlers, the better. Dhoni is one factor for our losses, but another equally important factor is our incompetence at the mental and skill level.
express bowling Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 A captain cannot compensate inferior player abilities. He can motivate and bring out the best and make the whole bigger than the sum of its parts. Where Dhoni has lost' date=' almost every other possible candidate would have lost, though the margins may have been lower. Our team sucks, and along with Dhoni's captaincy we are losing because we are not a good side - we would loose under any captain. A team that is continually slumping to 60/6 (like now) and refuses to cross 300 (in 2011) cannot win with any captain, whether it be Steve Waugh or Clive Lloyd. The less be said about our bowlers, the better. Dhoni is one factor for our losses, but another equally important factor is our incompetence at the mental and skill level.[/quote'] I agree to some of your points. But, one important issue is that .... the failure of many of our batters could be due to lack of motivation. Rahane, Kohli, Vijay and Pujara have all played well in SAF. Kohli did well in Australia before that. Rahane and Kohli succeeded in NZ. So ... it is not lack of ability but a mental issue. Rohit, Dhawan and Jaddu may lack batting ability in overseas tests though. So, playerwise, it's a mixed bag. Good batting is possible from this lot in overseas tests. Bowlers are , by and large, average though. I see no all -condition wicket- taker in this lineup.
Crookbond Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 Simple,You replace Dhoni with a good captain and a better Keeper,means more often than not oppositions will score atleast 50-100 runs lesser thanks to catches not being missed. That will more than compensate for the 30's and 40's dhoni will score in a pointless "back to the wall" kind of situation. There's no point even discussing with you when you indulge in cherry picking. For once, try to get this in your brain that the world is not "Do A, get B". A captain can't cover for inferior cricket being played. You might win the odd series here and there (example - Ricky Ponting vs SA in SA 2009) but you will still be behind the 8-ball. And before you even suggest it, Dhoni should be sacked as captain. He shouldn't be sacked because he lost the last 2-3 Test matches but rather because his captaincy was illogical and stupid.
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