Dhoni: from instinctive to inflexible

[vamos_rafa]

sure' date='I just why he cant?vamos_rafa was sure he cant or wont[/quote'] Where did I say that? I just posed a hypothetical question in lieu of what all is said about MS asking seniors to sit or go.

[Ram]

Tactics/strategy is over-rated. We have bad T20 players and our T20 team has had limited international success over the last few years. Just tweaking around with field placements or bowling changes aint gonna cut it for us.

[vamos_rafa]

Lord, the other day we were arguing in a different thread, that when a stand is taken on the seniors, then it is meted out with calls for ill-treatment. Here is one example of it. I don't trust the source(coz it's TOI), but this would always happen as the grass is always greener on the different side of the hedge.

Why VVS Laxman quit in a huff The amicable VVS Laxman, who has always stayed away from controversies, dropped a bombshell by quitting in a huff even though he had been selected for the series against the Kiwis. Though he took great pains to downplay any 'foul play' in his decision, it became more than obvious that the wristy middle-order batsman was hurt deeply enough to continue being a part of the Indian dressing room to wait even for a proper farewell. Laxman, though, did give a hint that all was not well between him and skipper MS Dhoni when he remarked on the day of his retirement that "it was difficult to get to Dhoni". It is believed that Dhoni wanted Laxman to be eased out of the team before the England and Australia series later in the year. "Laxman has always been a team man but the manner in which the issue was approached hurt him immensely. He was told that the two-Test series against New Zealand would be his last, but he was keen on playing against England and Australia. It hurt him really hard. He believed that he had done enough for the country to be able to decide when to quit," a source close to the player had remarked. Just before the opening Test in Hyderabad, Laxman choose not to invite Dhoni for a dinner at his new residence. He had invited Sachin Tendulkar, Virender Sehwag, Zahir Khan and Gautam Gambhir for the outing and also drove them to his home and dropped them back at the team hotel late in the night.

[Lord]

Lord' date=' the other day we were arguing in a different thread, that when a stand is taken on the seniors, then it is meted out with calls for ill-treatment. Here is one example of it. I don't trust the source(coz it's TOI), but this would always happen as the grass is always greener on the different side of the hedge.[/quote'] well hard decisions such as these will always be criticised,but u gotta be brave.even MSD was criticised wen he dropped RD n Ganguly in ODIs,but it bore fruit.its about self confidence n I believe Kohli has it

[vamos_rafa]

well hard decisions such as these will always be criticised' date='but u gotta be brave.even MSD was criticised wen he dropped RD n Ganguly in ODIs,but it bore fruit.its about self confidence n I believe Kohli has it[/quote'] And that's what people criticize MS for. That he does not take hard decisions. Now, he has taken it if at all he has a role in ousting Laxman. If Sehwag is seated for a game, inspite his piss poor form for 2+ years, that's bad captaincy, and if he's played inspite his piss poor form, then it's not so brave move. It works 2 ways does not it?

[Lord]

And that's what people criticize MS for. That he does not take hard decisions. Now, he has taken it if at all he has a role in ousting Laxman. If Sehwag is seated for a game, inspite his piss poor form for 2+ years, that's bad captaincy, and if he's played inspite his piss poor form, then it's not so brave move. It works 2 ways does not it?

dont know if he has a role in Laxman's retirement.the criticism was for the way it was done.Laxman also made it worse for making it public,if that story is true I dont think Sehwag been seated for that T20 game was decisive,but u have to understand,hes one of our impact players in T20s,his bad form has been in tests.in T20s he should be one of the first guys to play.

[Crookbond]

dont know if he has a role in Laxman's retirement.the criticism was for the way it was done.Laxman also made it worse for making it public,if that story is true I dont think Sehwag been seated for that T20 game was decisive,but u have to understand,hes one of our impact players in T20s,his bad form has been in tests.in T20s he should be one of the first guys to play.

Oh common Bhagwaan Ji! If he does not drop players, it is "for sure" Dhoni did it. Now, that he drops/asks someone to retire it becomes "not sure" about his role. Be consistent man - you owe it to god. :giggle:

[Lord]

Oh common Bhagwaan Ji! If he does not drop players' date=' it is "for sure" Dhoni did it. Now, that he drops/asks someone to retire it becomes "not sure" about his role. Be consistent man - you owe it to god. :giggle:[/quote'] if he plays certain players n drops them b4 a match,its obviously his call.a captains decision is final in playing XI decisions in Laxman's case he was apparently told by a selector that this was going to be his last series.no mention of Dhoni,even that was just rumours. if Dhoni wanted to drop Laxman,he'd have done it in Aussie tour,but he did NOT:P P.S. suggest me a good username,sick of you calling me .u r interpreting it wrong

[The Outsider]

And that's what people criticize MS for. That he does not take hard decisions. Now, he has taken it if at all he has a role in ousting Laxman.

:hysterical::hysterical: Not picking up phone calls from a long time teammate is a "hard decision"?

[Crookbond]

if he plays certain players n drops them b4 a match,its obviously his call.a captains decision is final in playing XI decisions in Laxman's case he was apparently told by a selector that this was going to be his last series.no mention of Dhoni,even that was just rumours. if Dhoni wanted to drop Laxman,he'd have done it in Aussie tour,but he did NOT:P P.S. suggest me a good username,sick of you calling me .u r interpreting it wrong

Everything was just a rumor for Laxman - apparently Dhoni also told the selectors he did not want Laxman and the selectors conveyed to Laxman and Dhoni did not answer his call. Howzzat for a story? :woot: Arrey bhaiyya, do not change your username I won't call you Bhagwaan Ji. Will gay Lord be ok? :hmmm: Just kidding!

[The Outsider]

Dhoni's WK skills I will not say he was "poor" before England/Australia - that's a bit harsh. He was not good or average - got the job done.

He was downright poor. He was standing as far back to Praveen Kumar as Prior was to Broad.

Remember Sehwag and Dhoni are in the same boat as far as test performances are considered in the last 2 odd years. Both of them have done nothing abroad and done something at home ironically against the same opponent - New Zealand. Yes Sehwag has definitely a higher Test pedigree than Dhoni as a batsman and deserves more chances.

Sehwag has also done "something" against West Indies, but yeah all in all both have been below average performers.

Sehwag as far as captaincy goes does not have an edge over Dhoni. This is not the first time Sehwag will be captain - he has stood in for Dhoni at a lot of times and personally I don't find anything different from Dhoni. I know you would diss IPL but he did not set the stage alight as a captain there too. Just like Sehwag as a better pedigree than Dhoni as a batsman; Dhoni has a better pedigree over Sehwag a captain. So, if Sehwag deserves some chances for batting after being so poor I believe Dhoni deserves some rope as a captain as well.

Sehwag has hardly captained at the international level. One off matches here and there are not an accurate judge of captaincy. And yeah I don't care about the IPL. Dhoni's captaincy has been abysmal lately - Lords, Nottingham, Melbourne, Perth. Four tests in which India had a chance at some stage, but where absolutely mind numbing decisions by Dhoni made sure we lost. LOL! Bringing on Raina when you have England in trouble.

Final issue remains about dropping Dhoni from the team - sure go ahead. But, Gambhir/Raina should also not get their place as well then. Consistency as always. If this happens though, I want Tendulkar to take over as a captain in Test matches in the short term.

Raina shouldn't be near any test squad anyways. And yeah, no harm in giving Rahane a chance.

However, IMO the best thing currently (if work load is an issue as some people are pointing too) would be for MS Dhoni to give up the gloves in longer format of the game and go in as a batsman. If he does not perform well, drop him. If he does, well good for us. Another alternative, is to rest him from a Test series - but I don't see that happening.

LOL! Dhoni as a specialist batsman in test matches while the likes of Rahane sit on the bench? Only way Dhoni can play tests is as a wicketkeeper batsman. You seriously think he is a good enough batsman to play as a specialist batsman?

[rkt.india]

dont know if he has a role in Laxman's retirement.the criticism was for the way it was done.Laxman also made it worse for making it public,if that story is true I dont think Sehwag been seated for that T20 game was decisive,but u have to understand,hes one of our impact players in T20s,his bad form has been in tests.in T20s he should be one of the first guys to play.

Please look at Sehwag's T2-I record then say if he is an impact player in T20 cricket. He has been an impact player only in tests.

[Lord]

Everything was just a rumor for Laxman - apparently Dhoni also told the selectors he did not want Laxman and the selectors conveyed to Laxman and Dhoni did not answer his call. Howzzat for a story? :woot:

just a story:idunno:

Arrey bhaiyya, do not change your username I won't call you Bhagwaan Ji. Will gay Lord be ok? :hmmm: Just kidding!

isseto Bhagwaan ji hi theek hai:giggle:

[Lord]

Please look at Sehwag's T2-I record then say if he is an impact player in T20 cricket. He has been an impact player only in tests.

strike rate of 145,which ofcourse is after it went down after Pak n SA games.impact player yeah.never said he was consistent

[rkt.india]

strike rate of 145' date='which ofcourse is after it went down after Pak n SA games.impact player yeah.never said he was consistent[/quote'] SR wont matter if one does not have good average. He averages 21. Do 21 runs per inning make a big impact on the result? He has high SR in every form of cricket so that is not the criteria to judge him in T20 as he has low average as an opener. Look at other impact players from different countries.

[Crookbond]

He was downright poor. He was standing as far back to Praveen Kumar as Prior was to Broad.

That's what I meant - poor in England/Australia. "Average" before it.

Sehwag has hardly captained at the international level. One off matches here and there are not an accurate judge of captaincy. And yeah I don't care about the IPL.

I get your point but one can only speak from the data at hand and given that there is no "spark" in Sehwag's captaincy. I wouldn't be surprised if he does not do well. I think Tendulkar should take the job and retire from ODIs - but that's just me.

LOL! Dhoni as a specialist batsman in test matches while the likes of Rahane sit on the bench? Only way Dhoni can play tests is as a wicketkeeper batsman. You seriously think he is a good enough batsman to play as a specialist batsman?

Easiest way to give Dhoni the boot before the next tour away.

[The Outsider]

Please look at Sehwag's T2-I record then say if he is an impact player in T20 cricket. He has been an impact player only in tests.

He has a better record than Jayasuriya and Gilchrist in ODIs. Were they impact players in ODIs?

[vamos_rafa]

:hysterical::hysterical: Not picking up phone calls from a long time teammate is a "hard decision"?

:hysterical::hysterical: It was meant with respect to the reply of Lord to the article that I posted.

[vamos_rafa]

dont know if he has a role in Laxman's retirement.the criticism was for the way it was done.Laxman also made it worse for making it public,if that story is true I dont think Sehwag been seated for that T20 game was decisive,but u have to understand,hes one of our impact players in T20s,his bad form has been in tests.in T20s he should be one of the first guys to play.

If at all it was dhoni, what other way should it have been done? Let's assume that Dhoni wanted Laxman to be eased out and someone passed this message onto him that this NZ series would be your last and we want a fairwell series for you. Would not this be far better than directly dropping him, then him sulking and then finally retiring? And keeping in mind dhoni's poor form, Sehwag has also been in woeful form in all forms of the game. This theory that Sehwag can do this and that has been thrown out of the window for more than an year and a half now.

[rkt.india]

He has a better record than Jayasuriya and Gilchrist in ODIs. Were they impact players in ODIs?

But they had played more innings of impact then Sehwag and here we are talking about T20, not ODIs. He is a decent ODI player, has been a good test player, but a below average T20 player especially in international matches.