can we learn from Jaya, Gilly and hayden ?

[yoda]

And that super-human effort by Rahul was because he had the licence to go after the bowling since he came in at India being 180/2 in 30 overs. Something that was made possible by Saurav/Sachin opening partnership.

he scores a pathetic 39 at a SR of 72. he is clearly becoming a rather useless player at the top. and i don't think he can rotate anything later either.

[yoda]

At the end of 15 overs today , Ganguly was 30 off 51 balls. When he got out in the 32nd over , he was 72 off 104 balls. That means , his last 42 runs came off 53 balls, clearly indicating he can plod the ball around in the middle overs, at decent pace. Where he failed was his first 30 runs. When India needed quick runs, he just hung on He got out at the worst possible time for India i guess.

he got those runs at the end going for big shots, not by taking singles.

[jf1gp_1]

At the end of 15 overs today , Ganguly was 30 off 51 balls.

the counter argument could be had he scored 45 of 51 balls at the end of 15th over, in the last 10 overs our required run rate would have been 6.5 instead of 8.

[Ram]

he got those runs at the end going for big shots' date=' not by taking singles.[/quote'] Yes , He seems like someone who is more comfortable with the field spread out , rather than playing with fielding restrictions. What i meant originally was - Ganguly can accelerate. He is capable of it. But we need firepower at the top. Stuff like 75/1 in 10 overs or 135/2 in 20 overs chasing 280. Not 88/2 in 20 overs.

[yoda]

we have to give uthappa 10 ODIs in a row and then dump him if he is no good. no point keeping this guy in the bench.

[Ram]

the counter argument could be had he scored 45 of 51 balls at the end of 15th over' date=' in the last 10 overs our required run rate would have been 6.5 instead of 8.[/quote'] I know. That is precisely what i am saying. Ganguly's slow pace left the batsman coming after him with no choice but to keep going after the bowling. We need either Uthappa or Sehwag to open with Sachin.

[observer1]

At the end of 15 overs today , Ganguly was 30 off 51 balls. When he got out in the 32nd over , he was 72 off 104 balls. That means , his last 42 runs came off 53 balls, clearly indicating he can plod the ball around in the middle overs, at decent pace. Where he failed was his first 30 runs. When India needed quick runs, he just hung on He got out at the worst possible time for India i guess.

What makes you think he will come in to bat in the middle-overs and bat from start to finish at the strike rate you mention? You have provided your own counter-argument, highlighted in italics by me. I am a great admirer of Ganguly and was at the ground today cheering him when he hit JA for 4 fours - the first two were poetry! Other oldies such as Sanath have adapted - they bully the ball more - and if SG doesnt want to run, he needs to hit harder. Or be dropped

[jf1gp_1]

I know. That is precisely what i am saying. Ganguly's slow pace left the batsman coming after him with no choice but to keep going after the bowling. We need either Uthappa or Sehwag to open with Sachin.

I accept everything you are saying but is this a solution or patch work ?

[Ram]

You have provided your own counter-argument, highlighted in italics by me. I am a great admirer of Ganguly and was at the ground today cheering him when he hit JA for 4 fours - the first two were poetry!

Not Exactly. Ganguly's pace of scoring wouldnt have hurt India that much , if he had come in when India was at 130/1 in 20 overs. Under such circumstances , a 70 off 100 balls is a good innings, helping batsman around him to attack and keep up with the run rate. We shouldnt get carried away by individual strike rates. We must think about who can fill what role best and who style of batting is best suited for what role.

[The Outsider]

70 off 100 is never good when chasing 280 - opening or middle overs. Basically means you are leaving the other batsmen to score 210 in 34 overs. So to accomodate an anchor every batsman NEEDS to score at run a ball.

[Ram]

I accept everything you are saying but is this a solution or patch work ?

I have posted in another post saying this is how i want India's eleven to look like Uthappa/Sehwag Sachin Ganguly Yuvraj Dravid Karthik Dhoni Pathan Zaheer Munaf/RP Powar Under present circumstances , i think this is our best ODI team. In the following 15-18 months , players like Sachin, Ganguly could either be played in reduced no. of matches , or they could opt of the odis themselves. Their spot should taken by Youngsters like Manoj Tiwari , Karthik etc. It would be suicidal to drop Sachin/Ganguly from the odi team at the same time.

[Ram]

70 off 100 is never good when chasing 280 - opening or middle overs. Basically means you are leaving the other batsmen to score 210 in 34 overs. So to accomodate an anchor every batsman NEEDS to score at run a ball.

70 off 100 balls , when you walk in at 130/1 in 20 overs is a good score. The team further needs 150 runs off 30 overs. If a batsman makes 70 out of them off 100 balls, the other batsman can attack around at a run-a-ball to score the remaining 80 runs.

[The Outsider]

when you walk in at 130/1 in 20 overs is a good score.

How will we get that kind of a dream start on a consistent basis?

[Ram]

How will we get that kind of a dream start on a consistent basis?

No , you have mistaken me slightly here. I am merely speculating here, stating that having Sehwag/Uthappa to open with Sachin will help us get off to faster starts , thus accomodating batsman like Ganguly , who experience , solidity and consistency are still invaluable.

[jf1gp_1]

It would be suicidal to drop Sachin/Ganguly from the odi team at the same time.

I sort of agree with you. sort of because i dont want to see ganguly playing ODI for next 15 months. I would like him to say good bye after pak/aus ODIs. wht abt dravid ?

[Ram]

I sort of agree with you. sort of because i dont want to see ganguly playing ODI for next 15 months. I would like him to say good bye after pak/aus ODIs. wht abt dravid ?

I doubt If Ganguly himself would be playing international cricket after 15 months. He has nothing to prove to anyone. He is a legend of the ODI game. He just wanted to redeem himself,after being dropped unceremoniously like that. Now , he can retire with his head held high , with grace and dignity. Dont discount that from happening at the end of this year too. Dravid has shown his batting has evolved beautifully to suit the ODI game. And dont forget, he is still one of our most solid batsman around. We need batsman like him. ODI pitches are not always feather beds.

[King]

I have been saying this for long, you can't afford 2 anchors at the top. Tendulkar today eased a little bit seeing Ganguly score few fours early on but as we all know Ganguly is not as fluent anymore and India surely must be the worst users of the power play. On flat pitches and against the bowling of England we score at barely above 3 RPO in the first 10. Now what with the new change in fielding restrictions India will also struggle in the second and third powerplay as there will be an extra fielder outside the ring. Cook meanwhile plays his natural game, Matt Prior clearly tries to improvise and plays fair bit of shots during the power play. Even Bell that comes in at no.3 is well aware of the power play. Only India is going backwards and as long as the combination of Ganguly/Tendulkar continues to open India will continue to be inconsistent.

[Gambit]

As big a fan of Ganguly I am, I have to admit that today his knock hurt us. His inability to rotate the strike and take minimal risks hinted at a really cautious approach. His only aim these days is to score runs. Pace doesn't matter. BTW his knock reminded me of Dravid's 50 off 85 balls as an opener(!) against Pak while chasing 290 in 2006. We won that thanks to Dhoni and Yuvi's spectacular hitting.

[Ram]

To be fair to Ganguly , he wouldnt have planned on getting out , when he did. He was 70 off 100 balls. Even if he had scored his next 35 runs off 25 balls ( which is not unreasonable to expect) , he would have ended up with 105 off 125 balls. I am sure that is what he and the team management set him to do when he went in to bat. That sort of inningsm coming from an opener , when the team chases 280 is a good contribution. He just got out at the worst possible moment for India.

[King]

To be fair to Ganguly , he wouldnt have planned on getting out , when he did. He was 70 off 100 balls. Even if he had scored his next 35 runs off 25 balls ( which is not unreasonable to expect) , he would have ended up with 105 off 125 balls. I am sure that is what he and the team management set him to do when he went in to bat. That sort of inningsm coming from an opener , when the team chases 280 is a good contribution. He just got out at the worst possible moment for India.

I can't give benefit of doubt to Ganguly. If it were just this ODI I can understand but you will know that he has continued to bat like this since the world cup. That just doesn't cut in the ODIs. It is ridiculous to see someone play so many dot balls at the top. Simply power plays are there to ensure quick runs are scored not otherwise whatever the reasons.