The best against the best - Sachin, Lara, Ponting & Kallis vs best bowling attacks of their time

[panther]

by 'quality of runs' do u mean runs scored in SA and Australia

Runs scored in a winning cause, alien conditions also good indicator but winning more important.

[Lord]

Runs scored in a winning cause' date=' alien conditions also good indicator but winning more important.[/quote'] winning was vcoz of Waz n Waqar,not Inzi:giggle:

[MechEng]

Sachin played some amazing knocks against great fast bowlers in 1990's. That 169 in Cape Town. He RAPED Donald!!!!!! He did have problems against Mcgrath.

[Gunner]

Good analysis and sound reasoning :two_thumbs_up:

[JaFanatic]

:nice:

[Late Cut]

Why go through all this "analysis."? A batsman's average in the 4th innings of tests gives you a good indication of how good they really are.

[koolkarts]

Good stuff, but I already thought this was the case, when you solely consider bowling line ups. People will say what they want, but once you present the facts, there's not much more you can do to change someone's mind. Unless they come up with a better statistical argument, it's just preference.

[Precambrian]

Also to be noted is the sheer number if matches Sachin played as compared time the rest against the best. Lara, Ponting or Kallis never had time face their in attack

[cricketman]

I am interested to see a further break up of the stats - home v away? Also, would like to see the breakdown for Dravid and Chanderpaul! Good analysis overall BTW - can England really be considered one of the best bowling attacks of 2000s when for a large part of the decade they were fielding guys like Caddick, Alex Tudor, etc... for much of the 2000s the only consistently potent bowler they had was Gough and Flintoff. They got good in 2005, but fell off again until recently

[Silva]

Not the best way to judge batsman. For example sachins average in matches involving mcrath is only 36 compared to 46 by brian lara and 40 by kallis. Kallis also had to play vs mcgrath and the aussies in south african pitches. You also have to take into account the fact that Lara has played more epic innings than any of the others. It took kallis a long time to score a double. Sachin only scored one double vs a decent bowling attack and that was against gillespie and mcgill.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Not the best way to judge batsman. For example sachins average in matches involving mcrath is only 36 compared to 46 by brian lara and 40 by kallis. Kallis also had to play vs mcgrath and the aussies in south african pitches. You also have to take into account the fact that Lara has played more epic innings than any of the others. It took kallis a long time to score a double. Sachin only scored one double vs a decent bowling attack and that was against gillespie and mcgill.

You some how decide that SRT struggled againist Mcgrath?How many times did he get out to him in those matches?And Tendulkar had to play all great spinners on Indian pitches. What do you mean by Epic Innings?Define please. Double Century is no means of judging a player's greatness.

[Silva]

You some how decide that SRT struggled againist Mcgrath?How many times did he get out to him in those matches?And Tendulkar had to play all great spinners on Indian pitches. What do you mean by Epic Innings?Define please. Double Century is no means of judging a player's greatness.

I pointed out the fact that featuring their best pace bowler tendulkar hasn't scored that much against them. Many of the runs he scored vs australia happened in the absense of mcgrath. Im Basically saying that player A scoring more runs than player B vs this team in this time period is not the best way to judge batsman. It doesn't take into account the exact Bowling attacks ,nature of pitches or the form that players are in. For example people often say sehwag can't play outside the subcontinent because of his average but forget that when he was in good form he did score plenty of runs in australia and scored in south africa, now that he's in bad form he struggles to score even in India. But his average playing outside of asia takes a bigger hit. You have to look at a wide variety of things to judge batsman which does include double hundreds and the number of under pressure innings that they have played.

[vamos_rafa]

I pointed out the fact that featuring their best pace bowler tendulkar hasn't scored that much against them. Many of the runs he scored vs australia happened in the absense of mcgrath. Im Basically saying that player A scoring more runs than player B vs this team in this time period is not the best way to judge batsman. It doesn't take into account the exact Bowling attacks ' date='nature of pitches or the form that players are in. For example people often say sehwag can't play outside the subcontinent because of his average but forget that when he was in good form he did score plenty of runs in australia and scored in south africa, now that he's in bad form he struggles to score even in India. But his average playing outside of asia takes a bigger hit. You have to look at a wide variety of things to judge batsman which does include double hundreds and the number of under pressure innings that they have played.[/quote'] You do an inning by an inning compilation of Sachin v/s Mcgrath and you would figure out yourself. Leave out the averages. Just find how many he scored in each inning against Oz in tests where McGrath played. You would get your answer about the so called struggles.

[Precambrian]

I am interested to see a further break up of the stats - home v away? Also, would like to see the breakdown for Dravid and Chanderpaul! Good analysis overall BTW - can England really be considered one of the best bowling attacks of 2000s when for a large part of the decade they were fielding guys like Caddick, Alex Tudor, etc... for much of the 2000s the only consistently potent bowler they had was Gough and Flintoff. They got good in 2005, but fell off again until recently

I think English pace resurgence started sometime towards end of 2003, by 2004 end they were certainly looking the best barring Aus, then in 2005 came the Ashes. They once again picked up during 2008-09 and from there onwards have been one of the best attacks. By the way selection of "great bowling attacks" has not been subjective. I used the coefficient (world avg/team bowling) to determine them.

[Silva]

You do an inning by an inning compilation of Sachin v/s Mcgrath and you would figure out yourself. Leave out the averages. Just find how many he scored in each inning against Oz in tests where McGrath played. You would get your answer about the so called struggles.

I never said anything about tendulkar struggling against Mcgrath.

[Rohit S. Ambani]

Sachin > Ponting > Lara > Dravid > Kallis = Chanderpaul > Jayawardene Thing in Sachin's favour is longevity, he has career as big as 2 normal career's. Good decent batsmen will fetch 8000 runs for his country, Sachin has 16000+. Sachin was Viv (8000 runs) like in 1st half, Gavaskar (10000 runs) like in 2nd half. He is 2 batsmen combined, he will ultimately end up with 18000 Test runs.