India v England in India, ODI bi-lateral series, 2013

[Number]

at 70 mph? they remind me of a species of duck called a sitting duck.

Which pacer was bowling 70 mph ?

[bharat297]

^ Also Zaheer's last few overs of the World Cup final were pretty bad. But he started off brilliant.

[rkt.india]

If he was played and thrashed like others, people would questioned his place. Look at England, their pacers were also thrashed.

[Clarke]

Even Zaheer has been smacked plenty of times. He was 88-0 in the last game at Rajkot in 2009 when he was spearhead of our bowling and was going through good patch in his career. :winky:

Ishant will have to improve by miles to be comparable to Zaheer.

[Number]

If he was played and thrashed like others' date=' people would questioned his place. Look at England, their pacers were also thrashed.[/quote'] Its a general problem with most of our bowlers like Ishant that their natural lengths are short of a good-length. So it will be difficult for them to go full and straight which is required in the death overs. It's always easier to adjust the length to good length from fuller, from good length to fuller it's usually difficult. I agree with that.

[saneindian]

How about preparing decent tracks for the bowlers? Ishant was our best death bowler vs Pak..on these flat pattas any bowler can have a nightmare like Ishant 1st ODIs- 1st spell 5 overs 22 runs, last 5 overs 1/17 2nd ODI- 1st spell 5 overs 21 runs, last 5 overs, 3/12 3rd ODI- 1st spell 6 overs, 17 runs, last 4 overs 3/19 In each of those 3 ODIs, he bowled 2 overs during the batting PP and 2-3 overs between 45-50 overs.

[rkt.india]

Its a general problem with most of our bowlers like Ishant that their natural lengths are short of a good-length. So it will be difficult for them to go full and straight which is required in the death overs. It's always easier to adjust the length to good length from fuller, from good length to fuller it's usually difficult. I agree with that.

There is nothing rocket science. It is all about practicing it in the nets and FYI, Dhoni's mantra is less practice, more rest, ab bhai ko kaun samjhaye, how would you refine and improve your skills if you dont practice and try to execute your plans in the nets first. Malinga or Gul do not bowl so accurate yorkers by just waking up and start bowling in the match. They have practiced it a lot in the nets and unless you practice, you will never have confidence to do it in the match and that is what happened to Ishant yesterday. Bowling yorker is the toughest skill for a fast bowler and no one can bowl it with accuracy and perfection unless he practices a lot in the nets.

[rkt.india]

Ishant will have to improve by miles to be comparable to Zaheer.

you did not understand what he wanted to say, if Zak could go so many runs then you could imagine what will happen to Ishant?

[bharat297]

There is nothing rocket science. It is all about practicing it in the nets and FYI, Dhoni's mantra is less practice, more rest, ab bhai ko kaun samjhaye, how would you refine and improve your skills if you dont practice and try to execute your plans in the nets first. Malinga or Gul do not bowl so accurate yorkers by just waking up and start bowling. They have practiced it a lot in the nets and unless you practice, you will never have confidence to do it in the nets and that is what happened to Ishant yesterday.

Exactly. The real problem is the work ethic (or lack thereof) in the Indian team.

[Clarke]

Shall we include some minor details & numbers ? Getting hammered by Samit Patel, 20 runs in an over while bowling to avg batsmen, giving length balls along with hit-me slower ones & no yorkers or effort bouncers. The worst economy rate among all bowlers bar a solitary one from Kohli. Play him all across the series if you may, but unless he shows some improvement keep a track of his limited abilities and drop him if he continues with the garbage.

[Rohit S. Ambani]

Ishant is tall and generates good bounce, he is brisk too.

[rkt.india]

Shall we include some minor details & numbers ? Getting hammered by Samit Patel, 20 runs in an over while bowling to avg batsmen, giving length balls along with hit-me slower ones & no yorkers or effort bouncers. The worst economy rate among all bowlers bar a solitary one from Kohli. Play him all across the series if you may, but unless he shows some improvement keep a track of his limited abilities and drop him if he continues with the garbage.

So then would you drop BK too because he also went for 18 runs in last over and hit by an average batsmen Patel. Though, I too think he should be dropped in the next match. He is not a good enough bowler.

[CSK Fan]

He can't play forever and we were on the decline even with him in the team with his own performances not being so dazzling. Time to look past those who have retired' date=' be it SRT in ODIs or RD and VVS in tests.[/quote'] I dont think anyone is asking him to be back. But it will be foolish to deny that the retirement of one of the best batsmen in ODIs will not make any difference

[CSK Fan]

There is always this tendency to think that the players who are missing would have turned the team around. Fact is, India went down 0-4 in England and Australia with Sachin, Dravid and Laxman present. Now, we are losing without them also. This proves that their presence or absence is not the factor. We need change at the team top. The captain and coach need to changed and some new thinking, spirit and direction need to be introduced. .

It takes a genius not to understand that everyone here was talking about ODIs and then bring up test performances as examples

[CSK Fan]

Kohli's stats With Sachin in the team - 31 ODIs, 1347 runs@52 Without Sachin in the team - 64 ODIs, 2567 runs@49 Not much of a difference. Kohli looks to be struggling due to off field distractions like the talk of captaincy. Watch him on the field, keeps missing easy pick ups these days. Needs to get his focus back.

Dude, i was talking about Sachin before he retired, not the series Sachin just skipped. So Kohli could go to him for advice etc. He had someone to guide him through all those distractions you are talking about whether Sachin was playing or not

[CSK Fan]

Rhiti Sports Managem..... oh wait!

You never know, he might be in the process of getting signed up. Else Dhoni has gone insane. Either way, it reflects on Dhoni and no one else

[NareshK]

Pick teams depending on pitch. Even though all seamers will get hit for runs on these pitches , bowlers like Dinda, Munaf Patel, Vinay Kumar, Siddhart Trivedi etc. are bound to do better than Ishant who generally bowls back of a length and sometimes tends to give width. On batting tracks, this is calling for trouble. I dont think Shami Ahmed will be effective on these tracks either (next match is in Kochi which is usually a patta) because he was bowling a bit short against Pak but its worth giving him a try.

[Clarke]

So then would you drop BK too because he also went for 18 runs in last over and hit by an average batsmen Patel. Though' date=' I too think he should be dropped in the next match. He is not a good enough bowler.[/quote'] BK started yesterday at the highest level. Isshhaannnt has had 5+ years of international exposure. Despite that, BK produced a reasonable 48th over while Isshhaannnt was rubbish in the 47th as well.

[Iconoclast]

Mehhh ... wasn't it drop Dinda bring in Shami a few days ago ? What happened ?

[Number]

^ Kohli failed in 4 tests too. :(( Raina and Yuvraj keep failing despite with Dravid, Sachin and Laxman in the test team. Having senior players helps but I don't think it makes much difference.