Lurker Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Before Azamgarh became famous for providing an endless supply of shooters for Dawood Ibrahim gang in Bombay, or for Abu Salem, the city was famous for producing one of the Mahapundit of Hindi literature - Rahul Sankrityayan. To my memory he is the only Indian writer who is recognized by the reader simply by words like ghumakkad (traveller). And yes he is the considered the father of travel literature of India. But the reason I remembered him was that amidst his travels he often got romantically attached to women and depending on which version you beleive he was married to a UP girl, a Nepali girl and a Russian..all at the same time. In a very weird manner Rahul Sankrityayan came to my mind when I was watching an interview of Quentin Tarantino recently after his latest movie Django Unchained hit the screens. I enjoy his movies, though I do find him overrated at times. However when he comes to his taste on music that is not underrated at all. Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown, Kill Bill etc. they all have some fantastic numbers, and frankly but for these movies folks like me would have missed out on them. So anyway QT is in news for the movie which belong to what is termed as blaxoploitation genre. A lot of gore and use of N words, which many African Americans have taken umbrage to. Anyway he was asked as to how he comes up with ideas that can be rooted in Black cinema, and specially the songs, and he mentioned how in his formative years his Mom was dating a bunch of black guys. Every now and then he would be taken out by his Mom's current boyfriend to watch a movie and that is how he was introduced to these C grade movies. What made it amazing to me was how easily he was talking about his Mom dating a bunch of guys, color or not and how that influenced him in a positive way. Think about it. Just the idea of Mom dating is enough to put most of us off, and here he is talking about multiple partners. And yet it is not so surprising at all. Guys write their best works when they are in love with someone, or are trying to impress. I bet more authors have written poetry in love celebrating their lovers, than those married. Even folks who lost in love celebrate their beau entire life. Not sure if a husband, or wife, has wrote endless poem for their hubby. So rather simple question now - Does morality stifle creativity??
dial_100 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 And yet it is not so surprising at all. Guys write their best works when they are in love with someone, or are trying to impress. I bet more authors have written poetry in love celebrating their lovers, than those married. Even folks who lost in love celebrate their beau entire life. Not sure if a husband, or wife, has wrote endless poem for their hubby. So rather simple question now - Does morality stifle creativity?? What does morality gotta do with it? People in love write things. Okay. Married people are not able to write. Okay. so where is the morality in this, dude?
Lurker Posted January 15, 2013 Author Posted January 15, 2013 What does morality gotta do with it? People in love write things. Okay. Married people are not able to write. Okay. so where is the morality in this' date= dude? I had a couple of examples up above Dial that should answer that. But to your point married people are in love too, I hope lol, so why cant they write? I sure think their spouse would love them to write...:winky:
punjabi_khota Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Dating a bunch of guys != dating them at same time. Anyways, I think creativity in the sense you use is a function of many things, and 'experiences' is one of them. Maybe our society doesn't allow enough experiences if one is to remain moral :dontknow:
Tiger80 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 There was a programme on National geographic ,Love ,lust something.In that programme they showed that scientists conducted an experiment.They invited random guys and divided them in two groups.In first group they invited them one by one and asked them to make painting ,then for other group they invited them introduced them to a good looking girl who chatted with them for few minutes and then they were asked to make painting.After that a painting expert was invited and he was shown all paintings and asked which paintings were made by guys who chatted with girl .For him it was quite easy because most of painting which had creativity were made by guys which were introduced to girl , while the worst one are made by guys which were just asked to make a painting. So even chatting with girl initiated creativity in Guys.
The Outsider Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I would probably phrase it differently - experiencing unusual circumstances inspires and can foster creativity. Most of the people we tend to interact with live more or less "moral" lives and a story drawn from their experiences or inspirations is going to be bland for us and not offer something new to us. But someone who has been part of some gang of thugs when he was a teenager would know a lot of things about that world which a lot of us won't and maybe years later when he has grown out of that life and becomes a writer he can draw on those unique experiences to tell a tale which is not something most average middle class people would have experienced. It's not just related to societal experiences, but for someone living in Agra a documentary about the Great Wall of China is perhaps going to be more interesting than one about the Taj Mahal.
vvvslaxman Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 woody allen marrying his step daughter fall under this category :cantstop:
dial_100 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Okay I know where you going with it, my friend. But I wouldn't put it on morality. Morality is a vertue that we dont lose even after marriage. We lose it when we act against the main principle of our being. So let it be. As for the creativity being lost after marriage, I can try and give my input on that. When in love or any similar state where we are deprived of something, we humans drift more towards emotional tendencies. Its a behavioral state where we get away from a rather active state or a rational state. Creativity resides in that area covered mostly by our rational or active side. When these traits subside, creativity emerges and you see some poetry coming out or music compositions or some other art formation etc. In the marriage, person is mostly justifying things rationally to run the family, women lose all their creativity under the immense responsibility of family and kids. Thats all. But believe me, married people are much more in love than those who are not only difference is after marriage we have jobs to do. W/o love its impossible to run the show honestly.
Lurker Posted January 15, 2013 Author Posted January 15, 2013 Dating a bunch of guys != dating them at same time. Anyways, I think creativity in the sense you use is a function of many things, and 'experiences' is one of them. Maybe our society doesn't allow enough experiences if one is to remain moral :dontknow: I kind of like the word "experience", definitely in the context of creativity. For some reason perhaps it shows an open-mindedness that may come with it? :hmmm:
Lurker Posted January 15, 2013 Author Posted January 15, 2013 So even chatting with girl initiated creativity in Guys. That's the muse factor. I can totally relate to that actually. It is not always girls, it could be anything that moves a person and inspires him where it comes pouring out. Hence the worldwide acknowledgment of writers for booze and drugs, then again in most culture they are considered immoral as well. Atleast has been at different point in time.
Lurker Posted January 15, 2013 Author Posted January 15, 2013 woody allen marrying his step daughter fall under this category :cantstop: Jeez that was super funny. I laughed out loud, really did at that. :hysterical: But Woody Allen's creativity is not my cup of tea. :secret:
Lurker Posted January 15, 2013 Author Posted January 15, 2013 I would probably phrase it differently - experiencing unusual circumstances inspires and can foster creativity. Most of the people we tend to interact with live more or less "moral" lives and a story drawn from their experiences or inspirations is going to be bland for us and not offer something new to us. You may be onto something there Shwetabh. Does that mean that morality, maybe not in its meaning per se but more contextually, perhaps sets a person/society in a set of rules where the unexpected is not to be expected? Thereby perhaps affecting the creative outlet?
Sooda Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Interesting, depends on the type of creativity ... A lot of creativity has nothing to do with moral or immoral experiences of the artist. In fact I can think only of romantic poetry or literature that does right... (ignoring 50 Shades of Grey which proves me so wrong ) The people who write good books just have great imaginations and a flair for writing. Holds true for all of popular fiction. However thinking about it now alot of popular fiction can be ABOUT immoral stuff. And much of good cinema and TV roots in immorality. A lot of 'immorality' can be entertaining - for the reasons Outsider outlined- and forms alot of what is popular entertainment these days. Creativity, insofar as entertainment is concerned, is used to depict 'immorality' even if the creativity flows from someone who is a totally moral person So in short youre probably right generally speaking. Perhaps we can flip it over and ask if Immorality stifles creativity. These film and TV writers and directors who feel compelled to appeal to a mass audience with violence and sex when in fact maybe they dont!
dial_100 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Hmm. relating experience to creativity. Lets see. I have seen an 8 year old boy creating a beautiful painting and winning nationwide accolades. No experience? Ability to give a form of art to an imagination is creativty but it needs to be shaped up with experiences, feelings or emotions.
Lurker Posted January 16, 2013 Author Posted January 16, 2013 Perhaps we can flip it over and ask if Immorality stifles creativity. These film and TV writers and directors who feel compelled to appeal to a mass audience with violence and sex when in fact maybe they dont! I suppose it has to do with intentions at some point. When you talk of so called artists resorting to mass appeal intent is the key, isnt it? We can also argue if how much of mass appeal is actually creative. This reminded me of the rich Urdu poetry of Indian subcontinent. And the roles of tawaifs have played in celebrating, popularizing, and preserving them? Would the sher-o-shayari be as popular merely by patronization by the rich? Or at shayar bentbaazi??. I don't think so. There is this lovely story, I need to dig up some of my old books now, of a Pundit-ji who had moved to Delhi from Southern India. He basically ate and drank good music and couldnt find it in the capital city (this is a story of late 50s). He finally located the sarai/kotha area of Purani Dilli and thats where he would be every evening. He would sit and listen as people indulged in drinks and more. There is this picture of a tawaif seeing him off with a Punditji ab aap ghar jaaiye, ab ye jagah aapke layak nahi hai...right before the reason de entre of people being there started. I digress from the core thought of course but that was too good a story to pass.
Lurker Posted January 16, 2013 Author Posted January 16, 2013 Ability to give a form of art to an imagination is creativty but it needs to be shaped up with experiences, feelings or emotions. Is imagination connected to social boundary Dial? Can an Indian woman conceive 50 Shades of Grey (not that it is a great literary work or anything)? And if not, is it the woman's fault or the social norms that have fenced her in?
surajmal Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 If we assume religion is considered a vanguard for morality, then some of the best literature, art and architecture is religion inspired. So answer to the question is a resounding no.
surajmal Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 convince people that you visit kotha only for music/sher shayari :P and the battle is won punditji Sex is immoral?
dial_100 Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Is imagination connected to social boundary Dial? Can an Indian woman conceive 50 Shades of Grey (not that it is a great literary work or anything)? And if not' date=' is it the woman's fault or the social norms that have fenced her in?[/quote'] Well not exactly but imaginations are outcome of our two sides of mind, subconscious and whatever the other is. Conscious and enlightened mind does not imagine things so the creativity from here is considered as a pure one. At least i think so. Why do you want to put her at a loss for not being able to conceive such a thing? If a life of a person is not involved with particular activities then the subconscious of this person will never lead to such imagination. So stereotypical indian woman would not conceive even 1 shade of grey let alone 50.. because shez not raised that way.... lolll. Its not her fault neither a social norm. It will never cross her mind period. For art to take a form or shape, a thought/imagination at the conception has to be appealing and fulfilling to the creator him/herself.
surajmal Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 convince people that you visit kotha only for music/sher shayari :P and the battle is won punditji. What are you getting at? I provided an exception, so clearly morality (or lack of) has got diddly squat to do with creativity.
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