Remember the best wicket-keeper batsman in the world is Matt Prior!!!

[BeautifulGame]

but from the little evidence so far-the batting isnt being compromised anyway

It definitely affected his batting big time during the England series.

[Lord]

It definitely affected his batting big time during the England series.

averaged 40 which is okay

[BeautifulGame]

averaged 40 which is okay

Not okay for a player of ABDV's ability. Also it's not just average. He looked very defensive in his mind set during that series which is unlike his usual self.

[Crookbond]

but from the little evidence so far-the batting isnt being compromised anyway

averaged 40 which is okay

Averaged? Please go and replay those games. In England, he was very poor. Averages don't reflect the fact that he was affected. There was an appreciable change. In addition, let me add that even if he was as good as he was earlier 10 Test matches are too small a sample to make a judgment on the BEST.

[Lord]

Not okay for a player of ABDV's ability. Also it's not just average. He looked very defensive in his mind set during that series which is unlike his usual self.

even specialist batsmen average much worse than 40 in England many times.he doesnt have to average 50+ in every series to prove its not affecting him.overall his stats are good. also dunno about the defensive part.SR is the same.its more dictated by match situation

[Lord]

Averaged? Please go and replay those games. In England' date=' he was very poor. Averages don't reflect the fact that he was affected. There was an appreciable change. In addition, let me add that even if he was as good as he was earlier 10 Test matches are too small a sample to make a judgment on the BEST.[/quote'] not saying hes the best.just that keeping didnt affect his batting. Averages dont reflect it?so what does?SR?its the same as career SR.What else?facial expressions? Interesting how you describe your opinions as the fact,great:hatsoff:

[Crookbond]

not saying hes the best.just that keeping didnt affect his batting. Averages dont reflect it?so what does?SR?its the same as career SR.What else?facial expressions? Interesting how you describe your opinions as the fact,great:hatsoff:

The thread title asks for a discussion on the BEST and I thought you are arguing for that he's the BEST. I made an assertion that ABDV doesn't warrant a nomination for the WK batsman based on 10 Test matches. If ONLY averages reflect it, lets not watch the game at all and rate Ashwin as the BEST Indian batsman in the last year. Here are a few questions you can ask yourself - [a] Are averages the best reflection for a batsman's performance? Is there a chance that the batsman can have a good average but may not have performed well? If folks like Kirsten, Hudson and ABDV himself have doubts on his WK skills I think it's a good enough indicator that there's something fishy out there. I am merely stating my opinion - you can choose to disagree but the least you can do is get involved in a discussion and make some effort! If you aren't interested, I don't think this is the right medium.

[BeautifulGame]

even specialist batsmen average much worse than 40 in England many times.he doesnt have to average 50+ in every series to prove its not affecting him.overall his stats are good. also dunno about the defensive part.SR is the same.its more dictated by match situation

I don't know about the SR part but I watched most of his innings in that series and clearly was batting with a defensive mindset. Even the commentators attributed it to tiredness from WK When u are in great form and then suddenly ur performance takes a major dip in the series u take WK gloves then yes it's clearly affected him. And also I am not sure but how many centuries did ABDV scored in the eng and Aus series combined?

[Crookbond]

I feel you are ignoring one of the things you often say-correlation doesnt imply causation.Yeshes thinking about leaving gloves.but how do we know its because of the load?maybe they feel hes not good enough keeper atm.Or they are exploring backup options just in case?Infact the article says it wasnt his own decision.

You have raised few points here. Point 1 - How do you know it is because of the load? Here's Kirsten's statement.

"The decision not to keep in this one-day series was a very specific decision which wasn't his own," Kirsten explained. "He is not making his own decisions. There is a process we go through in the team. Individuals don't just stand up and make their own calls. We felt that it might be a good idea for this series specifically that AB had an opportunity to focus on his captaincy. He is a young captain and there is a lot to do on the field."

Focus on the highlighted part and you will realize that it is due to the load. Point 2 - It wasn't his own decision. Quite certainly it wasn't. However, I am referring to his reluctance (in fact denial) to take up the WK keeping role earlier in his career. It is all out there.

[Crookbond]

Ian Healy on ABDV's dual role as a WK and batsman in Test matches.

"My jury is out until we see how good he is when the pressure is on," Healy told ESPNcricinfo. "I am going to really have a good look at him and see. But I do think it's going to take some effectiveness out of his batting." "He hasn't got much spin to keep to here [in Brisbane] but if you are keeping on day four or day five with Australia in a tight situation where they need 80 to win and five wickets in hand and a tough stumping chance happens, that's when de Villiers doesn't want to be wicket-keeper, if he is not good enough," Healy said. "But South African management are not saying he is not good enough at the moment so we have to wait and see. He might get lucky here in Brisbane with no spin but he just needs to be careful. His wicket-keeping might cost them something and it might blunt his batting. He doesn't need that and neither does the team."

I am sure Ian Healy is also wrong like the other ex cricketers but ICF experts are correct.

[Lord]

The thread title asks for a discussion on the BEST and I thought you are arguing for that he's the BEST. I made an assertion that ABDV doesn't warrant a nomination for the WK batsman based on 10 Test matches. If ONLY averages reflect it, lets not watch the game at all and rate Ashwin as the BEST Indian batsman in the last year. Here are a few questions you can ask yourself - [a] Are averages the best reflection for a batsman's performance? Is there a chance that the batsman can have a good average but may not have performed well? If folks like Kirsten, Hudson and ABDV himself have doubts on his WK skills I think it's a good enough indicator that there's something fishy out there. I am merely stating my opinion - you can choose to disagree but the least you can do is get involved in a discussion and make some effort! If you aren't interested, I don't think this is the right medium.

I was replying to the bolded text in your post I quoted,not the thread title. Pujara is the best Indian batsman of the last year(agree?) guess what averages reflect that:winky: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmin1=22+Feb+2012;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting If it isnt average n SR that reflects it what does?What did saw in AB's batting to say he was affected by WKing duties?How would you convince anyone who didnt watch?just state it as a fact n tell him to go watch it?I did watch it n didnt get any such feeling.Yes,the commies were talking about it but I dont have to agree.

[The Outsider]

:hysterical::hysterical: @ the desperate attempts of Dhoni pujaaris to bump him up one spot by using all kinds of silly arguments to discount De Villiers.

[Lord]

I don't know about the SR part but I watched most of his innings in that series and clearly was batting with a defensive mindset. Even the commentators attributed it to tiredness from WK When u are in great form and then suddenly ur performance takes a major dip in the series u take WK gloves then yes it's clearly affected him. And also I am not sure but how many centuries did ABDV scored in the eng and Aus series combined?

It was his first series as WK so they were speculating as they would if he has some low scores.later he has proved them wrong He averaged 43 in NZ series prior to that without taking the gloves,no sure where is the major dip?

[Lord]

You have raised few points here. Point 1 - How do you know it is because of the load? Here's Kirsten's statement. Focus on the highlighted part and you will realize that it is due to the load.

He says they wanted ABDV to focus on the captaincy in this series specifically,since he was young captain,not that it was affecting him.Obviously they wanted to try out few things in what they though was an easier series.hes now back up as WK bat.wouldnt have if the load affected him

Point 2 - It wasn't his own decision. Quite certainly it wasn't. However, I am referring to his reluctance (in fact denial) to take up the WK keeping role earlier in his career. It is all out there.

I'm not sure what were his reasons then,but Boucher was there so he didnt need to do it

[Lord]

Ian Healy on ABDV's dual role as a WK and batsman in Test matches. I am sure Ian Healy is also wrong like the other ex cricketers but ICF experts are correct.

hes speculating,not saying it defintely would.I'm not saying it defintely wouldnt,but so far it hasnt as proved by those damned averages

[philcric]

Tests - Prior ODIs - Dhoni T20s - McCullum End of.

[Crookbond]

:hysterical::hysterical: @ the desperate attempts of Dhoni pujaaris to bump him up one spot by using all kinds of silly arguments to discount De Villiers.

:facepalm: I the thread title says Matt Prior is the best WK batsman in Test matches, I endorse that view. I don't think MS Dhoni even deserves a mention in that list and so doesn't ABDV. I guess this is another attempt by Sehwag Potlu Pujaris to show their love for his belly!

[Crookbond]

He says they wanted ABDV to focus on the captaincy in this series specifically,since he was young captain,not that it was affecting him.Obviously they wanted to try out few things in what they though was an easier series.hes now back up as WK bat.wouldnt have if the load affected him

In other words, there is too much on his plate. At any time when you drop something, it means that you want to focus on one particular aspect because the other one may be affecting the thing you want to focus on. They didn't drop ABDV down the order, neither did they strip him off captaincy rather they decided to take off the gloves. Chalk and cheese!

I'm not sure what were his reasons then,but Boucher was there so he didnt need to do it

Read more. They wanted him to take up at a particular point of time. SA weren't satisfied with Boucher's contributions. But, ABDV said "He wants to be the best batsman in the world". He obviously will not come out as saying I can't do it - even now he does not because that would perceive as a sign of weakness. But, the fact that ABDV wants to focus on his batting is a clear sign that he himself considered doing both the jobs difficult including a high probability of one affecting the other. Since, batting is what we know him it's common sense to conclude that in the long run it will affect his batting. ABDV is not the first one to be affected with and will not be the last either.

[Crookbond]

I was replying to the bolded text in your post I quoted,not the thread title. Pujara is the best Indian batsman of the last year(agree?) guess what averages reflect that:winky: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmin1=22+Feb+2012;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting If it isnt average n SR that reflects it what does?What did saw in AB's batting to say he was affected by WKing duties?How would you convince anyone who didnt watch?just state it as a fact n tell him to go watch it?I did watch it n didnt get any such feeling.Yes,the commies were talking about it but I dont have to agree.

Sort by "Average" (which is your criteria for ABDV) and MS Dhoni is the next BEST Test match batsman in the last year, Gambhir and Ashwin are better than Tendulkar. Agree? :winky: I hope you get the drift now. I asked you a very specific question in . I haven't received an answer but rather a counter question. To convince someone who didn't watch is difficult and at sometimes you have to read more to understand. It is not just one ex-player talking about it but several already. Anyways, you have every right to disagree (even if you're wrong) but putting some more effort than the same rehashed point will help. In some ways, I knew you would stick to your point. Here's another snip from article -

De Villiers has not scored a half-century since taking over the gloves from Mark Boucher at the start of the England tour after which he was side lined for three weeks with a recurrence of a chronic back injury. He has made starts in almost all of his innings, including four scores in the 40s and an important and potentially match-saving 29 not out in over two hours during the second innings at the Gabba. But it is also obvious that de Villiers has lacked the explosiveness of the past, last seen in his audacious 160 not out against Sri Lanka at Newlands in January. While the scoop over gully still makes an appearance, de Villiers has adopted a more conservative approach and has failed to capitalise on platforms already laid by the top four. Since de Villiers took over as wicket-keeper, he has also not been called on to make any significant batting contribution under pressure. South Africa used Mark Boucher's forced retirement as an opportunity to lengthen their batting order and with seven frontline batsmen, de Villiers's scores have not stood out.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-south-africa-2012/content/story/591353.html Sometimes, it's important to understand and listen to the crowd.

[The Outsider]

^ That article is dated Nov. 15, 2012. Will Firdose Moonda write the same thing today after de Villiers blasted Australia at Perth and then Pakistan twice at home?