Will Sehwag end his career with an avg < 50.

[The Outsider]

so basically sehwag has a few good innings on pitches which were hard to bat on. and thats a metric for how good he is? based on how many innings he has had? While i wont say Sehwag is an out and out ftb, i dont think he excels on pitches with something in it for the seamers.

There are many aspects to the discussion. Firstly, look at the context of openers from the subcontinent performing away from the subcontinent. No one from the subcontinent except Gavaskar can be credited with playing more impactful innings away from the subcontinent. That immediately should tell you that it's not easy from subcontinent openers to perform consistently in such conditions. Secondly, a successful batting line up needs all kinds of ingredients. It needs a Sehwag as much as it needs a Dravid, Tendulkar, or Laxman. If someone like Dravid can survive hostile conditions like Headingly or Laxman can play with calm and serenity when the chips are down like at Mohali, then someone like Sehwag can set up test wins from impossible situations like at Chennai against England, or his triple hundred at Multan, or his 293 against Sri Lanka. Runs that were huge and were scored at such a pace that they opened up the possibility of a result where the match would have usually been drawn. Thirdly, blindly quoting averages to say he is a FTB makes no sense. His poor record in New Zealand has nothing to do with struggling against swing and seam bowling. His record in England was pretty decent before he played those 2 tests last year when he was clearly unfit. Now one might blame him for playing despite not being fit or prioritizing IPL and I would agree with that, but they certainly can't be used to show he fails against swing and seam. The only place where he has genuinely struggled is in South Africa, a place where many batsmen from the subcontinent struggle. Even Dravid with a much superior technique averages in the low 30s there. Ponting's record in India is similarly poor, but is Ponting considered a FTB based on failing in one country? Moreover, his failings in South Africa are mitigated by the fact he has absolutely flayed them in India.

and NZ series especially, i was watching and he got out trying to release the pressure of the spinners because the pacers were doing a good job. Rather than playing the ball on its merit he based his shots on how short the boundaries were and got out. that just shows he was dumb.

I have no clue what you were watching because he got out to spinners in the Napier test, which was a pure patta and had thrashed the fast bowlers in both the innings scoring at more than a run a ball before Vettori brought in spin within the first 10 overs and Sehwag threw it away.

[saneindian]

Get a top 20-25 list of all time best test innings by an Indian in the modern era and you will know how many of Sehwag's knocks figure in that. From top of my mind 309, 319, 293, 201*, 201 vs Pak at Bangalore in 2005, 195, 155 vs Aus at Chennai in 2004 all will figure in that list. Even that 254 at abetter than run a ball on a Pak road in 2006 will find a place. Thats the legacy he will leave behind.

[rkt.india]

Get a top 20-25 list of all time best test innings by an Indian in the modern era and you will know how many of Sehwag's knocks figure in that. From top of my mind 309, 319, 293, 201*, 201 vs Pak at Bangalore in 2005, 195, 155 vs Aus at Chennai in 2004 all will figure in that list. Even that 254 at abetter than run a ball on a Pak road in 2006 will find a place. Thats the legacy he will leave behind.

Yes. A great player who could have become an ATG. Regarding roads, 309, 319 were also on roads but cannot deny those were some great test knocks.

[Cricket Tragic]

LOL @ this "outside the subcontinent" argument. For example, the pitch in Galle was way more challenging to bat on than the roads in Adelaide or Sydney (2003/04). You can't just group things like that.

[Ultimate_Game]

Don't know why we have to run down our legend when he will walk in an Indian All Time XI side as an opening partner to Gavaskar. In fact I would even pick him in the All Time World XI if the match was to be held in sub continent.

[panther]

Remove draws from sehwags stats and his true ability is shown. 5400@ 45.5 Their are very few batsman with at least 3k runs who's average increases when you remove draws and 1 of them is the great Inzamam-ul-haq 6800@ 50.33 Another is the great saeed anwar with 3400@ 48.25 In fact anwar has only about 700 runs in draws.

[Ultimate_Game]

Remove draws from sehwags stats and his true ability is shown. 5400@ 45.5 Their are very few batsman with at least 3k runs who's average increases when you remove draws and 1 of them is the great Inzamam-ul-haq 6800@ 50.33 Another is the great saeed anwar with 3400@ 48.25 In fact anwar has only about 700 runs in draws.

Lahori logic at it's best :facepalm: Essentially crediting the two Ws performances to highlight how good "aloo" and "desert fox" were :giggle: If India had the luxury of a similar bowling attack Sehwag, and most Indian batsmen, would have had dnearly double the runs of the two mentioned here in wins. In fact Tendulkar would have had nearly 10K runs in wins if India had a good bowling attack. But alas that's why we call it "lahori logic" I guess :dontknow:

[panther]

Lahori logic at it's best :facepalm: Essentially crediting the two Ws performances to highlight how good "aloo" and "desert fox" were :giggle: If India had the luxury of a similar bowling attack Sehwag, and most Indian batsmen, would have had dnearly double the runs of the two mentioned here in wins. In fact Tendulkar would have had nearly 10K runs in wins if India had a good bowling attack. But alas that's why we call it "lahori logic" I guess :dontknow:

Not just wins wins and losses.

[Ultimate_Game]

Not just wins wins and losses.

You do know that most of the times wins are a function of strength of bowling? No matter how deep you bat, unless you have bowling who can bowl the opponents out you can't do much. In 2000s India probably/arguably had one of the best batting lineup in the history of the game but didn't have bowling firepower to force the wins. Thus even a dominant performance with the bat which would have won you the game with good bowling ended up in draws. How do you account for that?

[vamos_rafa]

Mark Waugh had a single 150+ score in his career. Must have been cr@p. And as for "just 2" 150+ scores outside of SC, you make it seem every other SC batsman has done so :giggle: So yeah MCG was a batting beauty where a lineup consisting of Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman and Ganguly failed twice :giggle: And did you even stop to think that if Sehwag hadn't gotten that 195 on a "flat patta" at MCG the match would've been over in 3 days. Yeah, that was a flat pitch alright :haha: Seems like when Sehwag scored it was a "flat" pitch and when others batted suddenly the conditions became "overcast", "swinging" and "seaming".

Dravid/Ganguly did not fail twice on the wicket. Nonetheless, it's not about 150+ scores. That reply was not for you anyways.

[Number]

Not just wins wins and losses.

So Faf Du Plesis innings in Adelaide will be removed from his good innings by statsguru specialists like you. To rate an innings you will have to either watch it or there are so many factors for which statsguru doesn't provide check-boxes.

[rkt.india]

Not just wins wins and losses.

One batsman cannot win or lose you test matches. You can win T20s and even ODIs on a sole brilliant performance but most probably not test, only exceptions. To win test, you need to take 20 wickets too.

[Marut]

I completely agree with this assessment. A guy who kept producing 150+ scores both at home and away cannot be crap. He's going through a long bad patch' date=' but that can't change the fact that he is truly one of India's greatest cricketers. How many good test openers has India produced in the 80 years we have been playing Test cricket any way??[/quote'] Sehwag, in my opinion, could have acheived much more outside the subcontinent by giving more respect to good bowlers. He played the same game he played at home. See what is Sehwag's strike rate outside the subcontinent. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;orderby=batting_strike_rate;qualmin1=1000;qualval1=balls_faced;spanmin1=15+Mar+1977;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting Sehwag has tried to maintain a S/R of 75 in these countries, which is not possible without seriously compromising the batting average. With a S/R of about 60, Sehwag could have finished with a 40-50 average outside the SC. No batsmen in the history of the game has blazed away like Sehwag, but Sehwag could not afford to do this where the ball is moving a lot. He had to have a slightly different game plan when playing on such wickets. Playing the same way he does in India will not help him get a 40+ average in SA, Australia or England. The bowlers there are too good and have plenty of assistance from the pitch that the intimidatory approach adopted by Sehwag will work only once in a while. India would have won many more matches away with a Sehwag who averages 45 away at a S/R of 60, than a Sehwag who averages 30 with a S/R of 75. Indian think tank has not optimized the use of Sehwag away, though Sehwag is an outright match winner in Asia.

[vamos_rafa]

Mcg chodo hamare batsman to ghar mein kuch naahein kar pate.Even pata conditions in australia are like greentops to indian batsman.Weren't u the one saying how important dhoni 30' date='40 innings abroad were:cantstop:. and how dhoni runs in the 2nd innings of the first test in sa where we were hammered changed the tone of the series allthough next test again we scored not many and dhoni failed.:giggle:.By that logic how do u rate shewag performance in the durban test where he scored 25 and 32 against the new ball on a greentop in a low scoring test and did shewag 60 in the first test 2nd innings also changed the course of the series.[/quote'] That Durban inning by Sehwag was actually pretty good. He played well on a green top in a low scoring affair.

[vamos_rafa]

The only thing that I said that Sehwag outside the SC, has not done enough. Also, bar his average in Oz, which again I said is built on 2 innings, he generally has struggled. Also, all his great innings outside SC are atleast a decade ago bar one. But in SC, even on tougher pitches he has been a great player.

[The Outsider]

Playing the same way he does in India will not help him get a 40+ average in SA, Australia or England. The bowlers there are too good and have plenty of assistance from the pitch that the intimidatory approach adopted by Sehwag will work only once in a while.

He averages well above 40 in Australia and was averaging 40 in England as well before the two tests he played last year when he rushed back from injury. In South Africa, Dravid averages in the low 30s with an opposite approach to Sehwag.

[Vanarp22]

Too bad Sehwag is no longer his old self...

[The Outsider]

The only thing that I said that Sehwag outside the SC' date=' has not done enough. [b']Also, bar his average in Oz, which again I said is built on 2 innings, he generally has struggled. Also, all his great innings outside SC are atleast a decade ago bar one. But in SC, even on tougher pitches he has been a great player.

He has 5 other 50+ scores in Australia in addition to 5 more scores in the 40s including the 76 he made in the Supertest when the best batting line up assembled from around the world including Lara, Dravid, Kallis, Smith, and Inzi bhai struggled.

[Marut]

He averages well above 40 in Australia and was averaging 40 in England as well before the two tests he played last year when he rushed back from injury. In South Africa, Dravid averages in the low 30s with an opposite approach to Sehwag.

If you want to maintain high standards over your entire career, then you have to learn to respect the bowlers. If your decline is happening inspite of that, then there is nothing that can be done about it. Sehwag's averages are due to a few very big innings and it could have been even more if he had shown more restraint. Strike rate of 60 is very healthy in test matches and you can score at this pace without much risk - lots of aggressive batsmen are in this range and they maintained high standards till they retired. Sehwag is only 34 and it would be too bad if he does not want to set high standards any more just because he does not want to change the way he plays. There is of course no point denying that Sehwag was phenomenal at his peak and could afford to take more risks than your routine batsmen. But his big innings outside SC have dried up long ago, he does not have one 100 and just a couple of 50's in the last five years in these countries - reason? bowlers have figured out how to bowl to him and Sehwag had to tighten his defence and watchfulness in order to continue making big scores. He did not. Sehwag's decline has started in 2008, when he was just 30, not in the last two years and this can be seen from his scores made outside the SC since 2008.

[vamos_rafa]

He averages well above 40 in Australia and was averaging 40 in England as well before the two tests he played last year when he rushed back from injury. In South Africa, Dravid averages in the low 30s with an opposite approach to Sehwag.

Agreed about Oz. Infact the 50 40+ scores are something that I missed out on. He toured England only once in 2002. Was dropped in '07 and '11 was a shocker.