Indian Bowling Selection

[Old guy]

I agree about Dinda's length being too short, but I'm hoping he can learn faster than Ishant. Tbh I'm ok with either but whoever is picked needs to improve. Praying for a speedy recovery for Zaheer or Yadav. But it's not true that people with round-arm actions reverse it more. It's only exaggerated when bowling to right-hand batsman because a right-arm round arm bowler gets natural tail into the right hander and when combined with reverse swing that gets exaggerated. But if that same bowler tried to reverse it in to the left hander, they would struggle. It's merely exaggerated against one type of batsman. Commentators (mainly batsmen) are often confused about reverse swing and think that anything that tails in is reverse, but very often it's just natural tail into the batsman.

I know what reverse swing is.. but honestly if guy cannkt get normal swing he wont reverse swing... And what you are talking abt is inswing some bowlers can reverse it more only one way.. Its easy to understand once u know how swing and reverse swing works In short what i meant was dinda has none of characterstics of bowlers who normall are good with reverse swing... This is reason im asking abt his release as u seem to know better abt it then me....

[Old guy]

Bad! But from what I've been hearing the bowling coach has been working specifically on the seam positions of BK, Dinda, and Ishant. I'm just hoping Dinda is a faster learner than Ishant.

So thts the reason he does not swings :--D Thnx for reply ignore last part of my previous comment as it was posted before i read this post:winky:

[Needforspeed]

If Dinda plays, the Aussies may mistake him for a Kangaroo.

[bharat297]

I know what reverse swing is.. but honestly if guy cannkt get normal swing he wont reverse swing... And what you are talking abt is inswing some bowlers can reverse it more only one way.. Its easy to understand once u know how swing and reverse swing works In short what i meant was dinda has none of characterstics of bowlers who normall are good with reverse swing... This is reason im asking abt his release as u seem to know better abt it then me....

I agree about Dinda but I'm hoping he can improve and learn faster than Ishant. I wouldn't have him in my team at full strength and I don't care if he's selected or not but I'm hoping he learns faster than Ishant. There's not that many characteristics of reverse swing. It's dependent on the ball condition and keeping the seam upright. The round-arm bowlers that merely reverse it one way aren't the best exponents of reverse swing, because reverse swing is all about the weight disparity between the shiny and rough side of the ball. To maximise the effect of that you want to keep the seam as upright as possible (or a slight angle). Not talking about Dinda anymore ... I'm just saying that, provided the fielding team has maintained the ball for reverse swing (which is often the most difficult part) then any bowler who can get conventional swing can get reverse swing. It's not a secret art that it's made out to be.

[bharat297]

So thts the reason he does not swings :--D Thnx for reply ignore last part of my previous comment as it was posted before i read this post:winky:

I agree his seam position is rubbish. The Dinda/Ishant debate is just a short-term problem until Yadav or Zaheer come back. Neither of them have good seam positions.

[Old guy]

I agree about Dinda but I'm hoping he can improve and learn faster than Ishant. I wouldn't have him in my team and I don't care if he's selected or not but I'm hoping he learns faster than Ishant. There's not that many characteristics of reverse swing. It's dependent on the ball condition and keeping the seam upright. The round-arm bowlers that merely reverse it one way aren't the best exponents of reverse swing, because reverse swing is all about the weight disparity between the shiny and rough side of the ball. To maximise the effect of that you want to keep the seam as upright as possible (or a slight angle). Not talking about Dinda anymore ... I'm just saying that, provided the fielding team has maintained the ball for reverse swing (which is often the most difficult part) then any bowler who can get conventional swing can get reverse swing. It's not a secret art that it's made out to be.

Dinda wont learn anything.. He had one good season and thats it Imo young bowlers have better chance of learning and improving.. Dinda has too many faults and imo will never be a test class bowler and i will play ishant over him anyday.. And u know me how much i fought with u going after ishant:hysterical:

[Old guy]

I agree his seam position is rubbish. The Dinda/Ishant debate is just a short-term problem until Yadav or Zaheer come back. Neither of them have good seam positions.

Zack is done.. He did not even stayed fit for ranjis Instead of selecting these guys we should have thought abt next away tours and selected some new pacers... Thts how to develop a solid test team Oh well i guess ishant doing well in odis gave him 1 more chance lets hope this is last we see of him until he improves..

[bharat297]

Dinda wont learn anything.. He had one good season and thats it Imo young bowlers have better chance of learning and improving.. Dinda has too many faults and imo will never be a test class bowler and i will play ishant over him anyday.. And u know me how much i fought with u going after ishant:hysterical:

Yeah I remember. I still wouldn't write off Ishant forever but I think the only thing that can help him right now is an extended season in county cricket (like what Zaheer did) where he can really focus on his wrist position and release.

[bharat297]

Zack is done.. He did not even stayed fit for ranjis Instead of selecting these guys we should have thought abt next away tours and selected some new pacers... Thts how to develop a solid test team Oh well i guess ishant doing well in odis gave him 1 more chance lets hope this is last we see of him until he improves..

Completely agree but remember I'm just going by who we named in the squad. Obviously there were much better options in domestic cricket, e.g. Shami Ahmed, or Pankaj Singh. In fact Pankaj Singh for Ishant Sharma might be the ideal replacement because Pankaj provides the same bounce and height but with much greater control and movement.

[rkt.india]

First of all Simon Jones was not round armish. It's about as straight arm as you can get. Secondly, it's only more pronouned when talking about reverse swing to a right hand batsman because a right arm round arm bowler will naturally get that tail into the right hand batsman. If that same bowler bowled to a left-hand batsman and tried to reverse it into him (e.g. the way Flintoff did to Katich in 2005) they would struggle. T

Please let me know how will that kind of a bowler makes the ball til into the right hander that is because he gets reverse. There is no reason to that otherwise. Bowlers like BK and Ishant aer the ones who do that often. A round armish bowler will always have an outswinger his stock delivery, not one the one which comes in like in case of Agarkar and Waqar as their stock delivery was outswinger.

[Fontaine]

Dinda doesn't belong anywhere near a Test Side. He's got average pace, bowls dead straight, and has zero bounce. He's a nothing bowler.

[Fontaine]

We have to stick with Bhuvneshwar Kumar. He's not pacey but he does have a great seam position and swings the ball both ways.

[JaFanatic]

ms trolled all you guys :hehe:

[cricketpitch]

Ya sid kaul can reverse it.. and he bowls at good pace.. he can bowl good yorkers too... he is one of the best fast bowlers we have in our domestic circuit..

I think it is better he is in domestic cricket. If we play him in the Indian team, he will lose his pace and swing and will not longer be fit for domestic cricket as well :)

[MCcricket]

Indian bowling attack is worst the. County n Australian domestic side, bowlers like Ishant , BK , Jadeja and Dinda won't even get into a domestic side for these teams and the biggest shame is it is not for lack of choice. India's bowling attack on merit should be Pankaj Singh, Shami, Ojha, Ashwin. Ishwar, Warrier can be groomed and even Jalan Saxena is better then Nadeja and Bhajji.

[ritwik]

Indian bowling attack is worst the. County n Australian domestic side' date=' bowlers like Ishant , BK , [b']Jadeja and Dinda won't even get into a domestic side for these teams and the biggest shame is it is not for lack of choice.

Given Australia's current spin resources, Jadeja would've been wearing the baggy green.

[bharat297]

Please let me know how will that kind of a bowler makes the ball til into the right hander that is because he gets reverse. There is no reason to that otherwise. Bowlers like BK and Ishant aer the ones who do that often. A round armish bowler will always have an outswinger his stock delivery' date=' not one the one which comes in like in case of Agarkar and Waqar as their stock delivery was outswinger.[/quote'] Okay let me explain it. For simplicity, let assume a right-arm bowler bowling to a right arm batsman. With conventional swing, for an outswinger the shiny side is on the right and you keep your wrist upright and cocked back and upon release bring it down from left to right. The less friction over the shiny side enables it to move away from the right hander. With an inswinger, it's the opposite, the shiny side is on the left and you bring your wrist down from right to left on release. This is why Ishant and BK get inswing. It's also why Ishant struggles with the outswinger because it's not easy for him to bring his wrist the other way (left to right) and maintain control. Dale Steyn is the best example of the wrist position for the outswinger. With reverse swing, a ball set up as an outswinger (shiny side right, wrist rolling from left to right) swings in because the weight disparity betwee the two sides becomes more impactful than the effect of friction, and vice versa for an inswinger. A round-arm bowler, unless he keeps his wrist upright (e.g. Waqar Younis) won't get natural outswing to the right hander because being round arm their wrist naturally tilt left to right (meaning the seam is angled towards fine leg) and when they run their wrists down on the ball, it tails in. This type of bowler may get the bail to tail in the same way as reverse but it's not technically reverse swing. They wouldn't be able to get it to tail into the left-hander the way Flintoff did to Katich in 2005. Waqar Younis may have been round-arm but his wrist was upright and him being round-arm wasn't the reason he got reverse, it was his wrist position. Being round-arm might have helped other aspects of his bowling (e.g. pace and rhythm) but ultimately what enabled him to get reverse swing was the wrist position and that's independent of whether you are round-arm or straight-arm.

[rkt.india]

Okay let me explain it. For simplicity, let assume a right-arm bowler bowling to a right arm batsman. With conventional swing, for an outswinger the shiny side is on the right and you keep your wrist upright and cocked back and upon release bring it down from left to right. The less friction over the shiny side enables it to move away from the right hander. With an inswinger, it's the opposite, the shiny side is on the left and you bring your wrist down from right to left on release. This is why Ishant and BK get inswing. It's also why Ishant struggles with the outswinger because it's not easy for him to bring his wrist the other way (left to right) and maintain control. Dale Steyn is the best example of the wrist position for the outswinger. With reverse swing, a ball set up as an outswinger (shiny side right, wrist rolling from left to right) swings in because the weight disparity betwee the two sides becomes more impactful than the effect of friction, and vice versa for an inswinger. A round-arm bowler, unless he keeps his wrist upright (e.g. Waqar Younis) won't get natural outswing to the right hander because being round arm their wrist naturally tilt left to right (meaning the seam is angled towards fine leg) and when they run their wrists down on the ball, it tails in. This type of bowler may get the bail to tail in the same way as reverse but it's not technically reverse swing. They wouldn't be able to get it to tail into the left-hander the way Flintoff did to Katich in 2005. Waqar Younis may have been round-arm but his wrist was upright and him being round-arm wasn't the reason he got reverse, it was his wrist position. Being round-arm might have helped other aspects of his bowling (e.g. pace and rhythm) but ultimately what enabled him to get reverse swing was the wrist position and that's independent of whether you are round-arm or straight-arm.

But you were saying a round arm bowler's natural delivery is to rail into the right hander while that is not the case. I know how to reverse the ball. Old ball swinging in and away is all a about which side shiny and rough sides are. The issue here is why round arm fast bowler likes of Waqar, Tait, Malinga get more pronounced inswing with the old ball than others. Malinga does not even have a great seam position. His seam is about parallel to the pitch rather than straight or upright. He delivers the ball with seam like this.

[bharat297]

But you were saying a round arm bowler's natural delivery is to rail into the right hander while that is not the case. I know how to reverse the ball. Old ball swinging in and away is all a about which side shiny and rough sides are. The issue here is why round arm fast bowler likes of Waqar, Tait, Malinga get more pronounced inswing with the old ball than others. Malinga does not even have a great seam position. His seam is about parallel to the pitch rather than straight or upright. He delivers the ball with seam like this.

I've told you why round-arm bowlers get more pronounced inswing. It's because of the angle of their wrist from left-to-right. Reverse swing (like old-ball swing) is all about the shiny and rough sides too but it requires greater care of the ball to make sure it is in a condition suitable for reverse swing.

[bharat297]

But you were saying a round arm bowler's natural delivery is to rail into the right hander while that is not the case. I know how to reverse the ball. Old ball swinging in and away is all a about which side shiny and rough sides are. The issue here is why round arm fast bowler likes of Waqar, Tait, Malinga get more pronounced inswing with the old ball than others. Malinga does not even have a great seam position. His seam is about parallel to the pitch rather than straight or upright. He delivers the ball with seam like this.

Also have a look at the seam in that picture. Because of Malinga's wrist being angled from left-to-right the seam comes out 45 degrees angling from left-to-right as well (i.e. the seam is pointing towards fine leg). That's why he gets more pronounced swing in to the right hander. But this is different to reverse swing