Omar breaks down in assembly while speaking about youth's death

[Trichromatic]

The Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Omar Abdullah broke down in legislative assembly over the killing of a youth by Army in Baramulla on Tuesday. With tears rolling, writ of expressions written all over his face, he was mum for two minutes. His silence dawned on the entire assembly, with every legislator and bureaucrat went into mode of introspection, as if questioning the present set of things. "While sitting on this chair of the chief minister, I am feeling helpless when my people are being killed. These are my people and I belong to this state. What reply I will give to people?" emotional Omar said after regaining control. Taking a dig at central government and people who are against revocation of Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) from certain areas where violence level has come down, Omar said, "I am not mad as I demand revoking of AFSPA." Without naming Army, he demanded, "They need to answer as why they opened fire and what was the need. As per my information there was no militant in the procession and if somebody had stone in his hands it is not new thing." When the news of the killing of youth came to assembly, PDP members of legislative assembly demanded information on the event from government. Law minister Mir Saifullah provided the information that Tahir Rasool Sofi was killed when Army opened fire on protestors in Baramulla. PDP members and independent MLA from Langate Engineer Abdul Rashid protested against incomplete information and demanded answer as for what fault why he was killed. When he was marshalled away on speaker's direction, the PDP members staged walkout from assembly. Reacting to this, Omar said, "PDP members did no wrong by staging walkout as it was their way of protest but I can't walkout being a chief minister. I also have resentment and am asking the same question to myself as why he (Sofi) was killed?" Maintaining that he can't go to people of the state every now and then to demand apology for every killing, the chief minister said, "Have I taken the flag in my hand to seek apology for every killing again and again? My heart goes out for the family and I can't heel their wounds." Demanding answer for the killing, Omar said, "I can't do politics and can only raise voice against the killing. I will knock every door to seek but will ensure that family gets justice." Expressing displeasure, the chief minister said that he can't get their son back. Slamming PDP for blaming him on every killing and incident, Omar said, "A person is hanged or killed somewhere but people blame me." "I wish everything was in my hand, which is not and former chief minister know this well," Omar said, while expressing his helplessness on the killing of youth. The chief minister said that he is tried now and whatever good he has done for the state has gone waste after the hanging of Afzal Guru and killing of youth. Omar was supposed to address reply on the Governor's address but he said, "I can't talk on roads, power and other thing at a time when my people get killed. I can't reply on questioned raised by MLAs but will only thanks Governor." He expressed condolence with the bereaved family.

HT

[Desi Cartman]

Without naming Army, he demanded, "They need to answer as why they opened fire and what was the need. As per my information there was no militant in the procession and if somebody had stone in his hands it is not new thing."

haan haramzaday they can throw stones at policemen which can kill them but whats the new thing. When was the last time this mofo shed a tear for someone who died in a terrorist attack or the poor army-men who get killed

[The Outsider]

haan haramzaday they can throw stones at policemen which can kill them but whats the new thing. When was the last time this mofo shed a tear for someone who died in a terrorist attack or the poor army-men who get killed

WTF! That kid was a terrorist? And if stones are being pelted on the police that justifies killing the perpetrators? Can't they use protective gear, water cannons, or rubber bullets? How many policemen have died in stone pelting? What happened to proportionate response of force? Or lawful arrests and detentions?

[Desi Cartman]

WTF! That kid was a terrorist? And if stones are being pelted on the police that justifies killing the perpetrators? Can't they use protective gear, water cannons, or rubber bullets? How many policemen have died in stone pelting? What happened to proportionate response of force? Or lawful arrests and detentions?

I dont think a kid pelting stone deserves to die but justifying people throwing stones on the police is stupid. It happens there every other day and these "protesters" think its ok throw stones at security forces and injure them and expect security forces to stay there dressed in protective gear. When was the last time Omar questioned the parents of these kids who are participating in these violent protests ? Also, how is police supposed to know that how many out of 100s of people throwing stones are militants and how many are protesters ?

[The Outsider]

I dont think a kid pelting stone deserves to die but justifying people throwing stones on the police is stupid. It happens there every other day and these "protesters" think its ok throw stones at security forces and injure them and expect security forces to stay there dressed in protective gear. When was the last time Omar questioned the parents of these kids who are participating in these violent protests ?

Where is he justifying stone throwing? He is saying if someone had a stone in his hand that's not a new thing and shooting that person is not proportionate response. If protesters are indeed pelting the poor policemen with stones every other day then they should be using protective gear, water cannons, and rubber bullets not start firing at them with real bullets and killing them. Yes, and that's exactly what is to be expected of them in a civilized police force. We are not barbarians to start killing civilians indiscriminately. Collateral damage is one thing, but there was no sign of terrorists in this case.

Also, how is police supposed to know that how many out of 100s of people throwing stones are militants and how many are protesters ?

So, the solution is shoot them all I guess. Why stop at one? Just kill the whole lot next time. There are at least a dozen different things which can be done before shooting blindly at protesters. Just a few days back a 13 year old was killed and now this and you see nothing wrong in this?

[surajmal]

Baramulla: Army says youth not killed in firing by its troopers

Army on Tuesday said it has ordered an internal inquiry into the firing incident in Baramulla district of Kashmir in which a youth was killed, but claimed it was not due to army firing. An Army spokesman, in a statement, said an inquiry has been ordered into the incident in which Tahir Latief Sofi was killed, to "find out the truth." The spokesman said a foot patrol unit of the Army was attacked by a mob, creating a life-threatening situation for the personnel. He said the personnel opened firing in air, which could not have caused death of the youth. The spokesman said there were intelligence inputs with regard to the plans by terrorists to entangle Army personnel, particularly in Baramulla, in a protest and to attack the Army taking shield of the crowd with a view to trigger large-scale violence. "This needs to be probed in detail by police," the Army spokesperson said.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Srinagar/Baramulla-Army-says-youth-not-killed-in-firing-by-its-troopers/Article1-1021832.aspx Playing shenanigans to get rid of AFSPA... Edit: Indian Army isn't trigger happy. If the case was being made against CRPF or local police (who are mostly untrained to handle hot areas), one can understand. But a long and false case is being made to get rid of AFSPA, so tread carefully with assumptions.

[Desi Cartman]

Where is he justifying stone throwing? He is saying if someone had a stone in his hand that's not a new thing and shooting that person is not proportionate response. If protesters are indeed pelting the poor policemen with stones every other day then they should be using protective gear, water cannons, and rubber bullets not start firing at them with real bullets and killing them. Yes, and that's exactly what is to be expected of them in a civilized police force. We are not barbarians to start killing civilians indiscriminately. Collateral damage is one thing, but there was no sign of terrorists in this case. So, the solution is shoot them all I guess. Why stop at one? Just kill the whole lot next time. There are at least a dozen different things which can be done before shooting blindly at protesters. Just a few days back a 13 year old was killed and now this and you see nothing wrong in this?

has he made an appeal to the parents to keep these kids at home and not let them throw stones at the police ? Why is it completely acceptable for people including kids to throw stones in a society ? If it happens once in a while, rage and protest etc can be blamed but what are kids doing throwing stones at police every other day ? Im not saying the kid deserved to die but you cant accept your kid to return home safe when he throws stones at police. These tears that he is shedding today have never been shed for security forces or anybody killed by a millitant

[The Outsider]

has he made an appeal to the parents to keep these kids at home and not let them throw stones at the police ?

I don't know, but whether he has or hasn't is not a justification for indiscriminate firing. Should he? Yes, but he won't be the first neta in our country to indulge in populism. The innocent civilians should not suffer due to that.

Why is it completely acceptable for people including kids to throw stones in a society ? If it happens once in a while, rage and protest etc can be blamed but what are kids doing throwing stones at police every other day ?

It does happen once in a while. These incidents have flared up since the Afzal Guru hanging but before that there were not too many incidents like this since over 2 summers back.

Im not saying the kid deserved to die but you cant accept your kid to return home safe when he throws stones at police. These tears that he is shedding today have never been shed for security forces or anybody killed by a millitant

Terrorism in the valley is at an all time low for the last 23 years. This is the time to build a relationship of trust with the public and include them in the mainstream society. This is the time to gradually get rid of AFSPA. How do you propose to win the trust of the people by firing at their protests? Or by raiding homes and stripping people without any accountability? I'll ask you again how again how many measures like arrests, water cannons, or rubber bullets did the forces take before resorting to this extreme measure? There isn't even any proof that this particular person was pelting stones.

[Muloghonto]

Where is he justifying stone throwing? He is saying if someone had a stone in his hand that's not a new thing and shooting that person is not proportionate response. If protesters are indeed pelting the poor policemen with stones every other day then they should be using protective gear, water cannons, and rubber bullets not start firing at them with real bullets and killing them. Yes, and that's exactly what is to be expected of them in a civilized police force. We are not barbarians to start killing civilians indiscriminately. Collateral damage is one thing, but there was no sign of terrorists in this case. So, the solution is shoot them all I guess. Why stop at one? Just kill the whole lot next time. There are at least a dozen different things which can be done before shooting blindly at protesters. Just a few days back a 13 year old was killed and now this and you see nothing wrong in this?

And that is the key issue. They are *NOT* policemen. They are military. Police are taught to deal with proportionate response, crowd control, protest management etc. (or atleast, they are in western countries). The army has one purpose: to kill threats. When the army percieves you as a threat, you need to be neutralized. It doesnt matter if you are a threat with a stinger missile, IED or a threat with a stone. A threat is a threat to the military. The disconnect here, is that we are expecting the military to do the job of police. They cannot. They are not trained in such fields as crisis management, public relations, crowd control etc. They are trained in how to kill, how to follow orders, how to sweep, seek and destroy threats in areas, etc. When you ask the army to do the job of the police, i expect disproportionate response and the whole 'shoot first, ask questions later' mentality to prevail. And i'd not expect valorous sacrifices for national defence if we asked the Police to go fight the Pakis or the Chinese. They'd run away screaming.

[Desi Cartman]

I don't know, but whether he has or hasn't is not a justification for indiscriminate firing. Should he? Yes, but he won't be the first neta in our country to indulge in populism. The innocent civilians should not suffer due to that.

What is the justification of kids throwing stones ? I have never said that the kid deserved death but I ask why only security forces are blamed and not the society.

It does happen once in a while. These incidents have flared up since the Afzal Guru hanging but before that there were not too many incidents like this since over 2 summers back.

There were always protests here and there but yes largely it was peaceful

Terrorism in the valley is at an all time low for the last 23 years. This is the time to build a relationship of trust with the public and include them in the mainstream society. This is the time to gradually get rid of AFSPA. How do you propose to win the trust of the people by firing at their protests? Or by raiding homes and stripping people without any accountability?

Terrorism ie bomb blasts etc have steadily gone down as the KPs moved. Now there are only muslims or armymen who can be killed. There are fewer cases of attack on army.

I'll ask you again how again how many measures like arrests, water cannons, or rubber bullets did the forces take before resorting to this extreme measure? There isn't even any proof that this particular person was pelting stones.

I once again say that the kid doesn't deserve to die but his parents are also to be blamed for letting him at the least become part of a mob who was part of an violent protest. The society which blames security forces for shooting but doesnt ask kids to not become part of violent protests

[The Outsider]

And that is the key issue. They are *NOT* policemen. They are military. Police are taught to deal with proportionate response' date= crowd control, protest management etc. (or atleast, they are in western countries). The army has one purpose: to kill threats. When the army percieves you as a threat, you need to be neutralized. It doesnt matter if you are a threat with a stinger missile, IED or a threat with a stone. A threat is a threat to the military.

In western countries yes, but if you think Indian police is trained to handle these situations you are way off the base. CRPF has the worst record of being trigger happy and communal. In this case it looks like it was the army, but the final consequence would likely not have been different if it was the police.

[The Outsider]

What is the justification of kids throwing stones ? I have never said that the kid deserved death but I ask why only security forces are blamed and not the society.

None. There is no justification. But if such a killing happens then the bulk of the blame is with the security forces. Granted, he should not have been pelting stones but there are half a dozen things which the security forces were obliged to do before killing him. I would not have been complaining if they had used rubber bullets or detained him.

Terrorism ie bomb blasts etc have steadily gone down as the KPs moved. Now there are only muslims or armymen who can be killed. There are fewer cases of attack on army.

That's far removed from the truth. The vast majority of Pundits had moved by the early 90s and militancy peaked in the early 00s.

I once again say that the kid doesn't deserve to die but his parents are also to be blamed for letting him at the least a mob who was part of an violent protest

There are two incidents here. One was of the 13 year old who was killed last month. The guy who died in this incident was 24. And yes, the 13 year old's parents deserve blame, but the bulk of the blame lies with the security forces who followed no protocol of a civilized force while dealing with the situation.

[surajmal]

but the bulk of the blame lies with the security forces who followed no protocol of a civilized force while dealing with the situation.

Calm down with the invectives. You seriously have no idea what forces deal with on a daily basis. Reporters will never report about the 99 other instances where they displayed some major ****ing restraint. But that doesn't sell as well the 1 instance where some junior nco lost his cool.

[The Outsider]

Calm down with the invectives. You seriously have no idea what forces deal with on a daily basis. Reporters will never report about the 99 other instances where they displayed some major ****ing restraint. But that doesn't sell as well the 1 instance where some junior nco lost his cool.

Huh? I am blaming the security forces involved in this particular situation, not the entire armed forces. But since you bring it up the inquiries and investigations in such situtations have left a lot to be desired over the years.

[surajmal]

Huh? I am blaming the security forces involved in this particular situation' date= not the entire armed forces. I'll take the word of the army officers on the ground over that of the traitorous NGOs and media.

So a "civilized force" follows protocol to a T every time? You telling me that these "civilized forces" have never acted outside the lines? Must be nice to pass judgements in the confines of your home/office. And there are no protocols for a perpetually "hot zone", other than survival of the self. If Indian security forces were so "uncivilized" they would be using gunships for CT and COIN (MO of your "civilized" forces) not just Infantry.

[Muloghonto]

Huh? I am blaming the security forces involved in this particular situation' date= not the entire armed forces. But since you bring it up the inquiries and investigations in such situtations have left a lot to be desired over the years.

The security forces in Kashmir *are* armed forces, aka the Indian military. To expect proper restraint shown by the military in civillian enforcement of law, is foolhardy. Army does what army does- you ask them to maintain peace, they impose a curfew and instantly shoot the violaters of the curfew. The police are the ones who go 'investigate' the curfew breakers- arrest them or intimidate them to go back to their homes. I think we are losing sight of the fact that these are *NOT* police, these are the army. People who are trained to follow orders and kill targets. The fundamental dictum of any military is to eliminate hostile actors. The fundamental dictum of police is to diffuse situations, make arrests and use lethal force as a last resort. The army uses it as first resort, for that is what they are trained to do, as in battlefields, you need to boil the situation down to 'hold your fire' or 'open fire'. None of this 'talk to the peoples, discourage them to throw stones, beg them to go home,etc' - that is the police MO. We cannot unleash the tiger in the village and then cry about why did the tiger slay all and not act like an elephant and scare everyone into silence. Tigers do what tigers do. It is in its nature. So it is with the army. If we ask the army to show 'police-like considerations', we are actually taking away from their effectiveness for their fundamental job- to protect the nation against hostile actors. As long as Indian military is tasked with doing police work in Kashmir, the situation will continue. The simple solution, is to create a well armed & well trained police force who will take over the internal peace and security task from the military, leaving the military to focus on neutralizing cross-border threats and vigilant patrolling of the border.

[rahulrulezz]

As Outy mentioned, this is the best time to make friends with Kashmiris n get them on our side. I personally feel that if India wants to keep Kashmir, we can only keep it with love n peace. Similarly Kashmiris need to realize that joining Pakistan won't take them anywhere and it is India where the future is. If both parties start loving n accepting each other, that is the only solution or else both Kasmiris n India would struggle n waste all their resources, money n future fighting each other whereas Pakistan would enjoy it. Or else, get Kashmir out n let them join Pakistan. This will bring peace n finally Kashmiris would realize value of India n we would finally live in peace. I know this has implications but I don't believe in force

[Muloghonto]

As Outy mentioned' date=' this is the best time to make friends with Kashmiris n get them on our side. [/quote'] True. We are not going to get any Kashmiris on our side by asking the military to do the police's job. If law enforcement brutalities by the military is their major beef, the problem is easily solved by training up their police force and leaving the military to do military jobs. Kashmir will cease to be an issue when India has a majority party (not coalition) in power, which grows a pair and revokes article 370. Once rest of India can buy land in Kashmir, we can 'pull a China in Tibet' and demographically solve Kashmir, by making Kashmiris a minority in Kashmir

[The Outsider]

So a "civilized force" follows protocol to a T every time? You telling me that these "civilized forces" have never acted outside the lines? Must be nice to pass judgements in the confines of your home/office. And there are no protocols for a perpetually "hot zone", other than survival of the self. If Indian security forces were so "uncivilized" they would be using gunships for CT and COIN (MO of your "civilized" forces) not just Infantry. I'll take the word of the army officers on the ground over that of the traitorous NGOs and media.

Did you even understand what I wrote? "The perpetrators of this particular incident did not act like a civilized force does" If you still don't get it, keep on with the blabbering.

[The Outsider]

The security forces in Kashmir *are* armed forces' date= aka the Indian military. To expect proper restraint shown by the military in civillian enforcement of law, is foolhardy. Army does what army does- you ask them to maintain peace, they impose a curfew and instantly shoot the violaters of the curfew. The police are the ones who go 'investigate' the curfew breakers- arrest them or intimidate them to go back to their homes.

You're wrong. The vast majority of policing in cities and villages is done by the police force and CRPF. Most of the army is at the Line of Control and is used only for specific escalations and situations in civilian areas. There is one battalion which is involved in the day to day activities.