MSD the best captain India had: Wadekar

[The Outsider]

And I don't have a problem with that. I was referring to those who consider him the worst.

What should we consider someone who sets a target of 600 for NZ and refuses to chase an achievable target against WI? Or someone who lets Broad and Swann make merry and then repeats it against Siddle and Hilfenhaus? :((

[Ultimate_Game]

As is the case most times in life, in this case as well the truth is somewhere in the middle. Dhoni's neither the best captain nor the worst.

[Ram]

For a nation that has had more mediocre captains than good ones, we do seem to take a ridiculously unfair stance when it comes to assessing Dhoni's captaincy. In Dhoni's own words, the captain is only as good as his team. He did not thump his chest and anointed himself as the emperor when we were flying high in the aftermath of the WC in 11. Likewise, we should extend him the courtesy of sparing him some of the preposterous criticism that has been hurled his way.

[CG]

For a nation that has had more mediocre captains than good ones, we do seem to take a ridiculously unfair stance when it comes to assessing Dhoni's captaincy. In Dhoni's own words, the captain is only as good as his team. He did not thump his chest and anointed himself as the emperor when we were flying high in the aftermath of the WC in 11. Likewise, we should extend him the courtesy of sparing him some of the preposterous criticism that has been hurled his way.

Because Dhoni Thinking and actions are preposterous mostly.Making mistakes is not the problem ,but repeating the same again and again is idotic.

[Ram]

Because Dhoni Thinking and actions are preposterous mostly.Making mistakes is not the problem ' date='but repeating the same again and again is idotic.[/quote'] Its not his fault if the collective spin of India's batting for the last 20 years suddenly chose to have a simultaneous dip in form. Our test fortunes are dictated by the rise and fall of India's batting order. If we bat poorly, it does not matter if God captained us, it would have made no difference. Sure, the question can be asked - Did MSD, coming in at no.7 like he does, contribute heavily towards the collective batting failures by his own individual struggles? Yes, absolutely. But you cant put all of it on him.

[CG]

Its not his fault if the collective spin of India's batting for the last 20 years suddenly chose to have a simultaneous dip in form. Our test fortunes are dictated by the rise and fall of India's batting order. If we bat poorly, it does not matter if God captained us, it would have made no difference. Sure, the question can be asked - Did MSD, coming in at no.7 like he does, contribute heavily towards the collective batting failures by his own individual struggles? Yes, absolutely. But you cant put all of it on him.

I Really am tired of talking about his Tactical errors as Captain.Contrary to Popular Belief He has always been an defensive Minded captain with a Safety First Approach like many other indian captains.For odd spark of brilliance like 8-1 Field Against Aus.His captaincy is monotonous & is Heavily Influenced By Odis .His Selection is where there is Huge inconsistencies ,Captains Favourites Get Ahead of Guys who performed consistently . Oja-Bhajji Case ,Ishant Sharma are Recent examples.He is also very rigid which was evident when we continued with the same team even after losing and losing in both the away tours.He hold on to captaincy in tests after those loses even holding on to t20 captaincy after 3 wc Loses.Then there is his sportsmangement firm whom he has business partnership with and csk angle is old enough.

[Ram]

I Really am tired of talking about his Tactical errors as Captain.Contrary to Popular Belief He has always been an defensive Minded captain with a Safety First Approach like many other indian captains.For odd spark of brilliance like 8-1 Field Against Aus.His captaincy is monotonous & is Heavily Influenced By Odis .His Selection is where there is Huge inconsistencies ' date='Captains Favourites Get Ahead of Guys who performed consistently . Oja-Bhajji Case ,Ishant Sharma are Recent examples.He is also very rigid which was evident when we continued with the same team even after losing and losing in both the away tours.He hold on to captaincy in tests after those loses even holding on to t20 captaincy after 3 wc Loses.Then there is his sportsmangement firm whom he has business partnership with and csk angle is old enough.[/quote'] I am not going to expend too much energy on this topic, but if his captaincy is so monotonous and one-dimensional, I wonder what was different during the nearly 2 years when we were world no.1? Speaking of T20s, I have always maintained that we have an extremely mediocre T20 team. Our triumph in the inaugural version of the tournament was more an aberration than norm.

[Sidhoni]

What should we consider someone who sets a target of 600 for NZ and refuses to chase an achievable target against WI? Or someone who lets Broad and Swann make merry and then repeats it against Siddle and Hilfenhaus? :((

Then what should we call someone under whom India became the No.1 test team? It works both ways.

[philcric]

Dhoni is not a bad captain. Nor is he a very good one. For a team which is rebuilding, I don't think he'd be very good, because he generally doesn't have much vision for the future, he likes to keep it simple, just live and play for today. I feel Dravid or Kumble (in their prime of course) would have been very good captains for this Indian team now.

[The Outsider]

Then what should we call someone under whom India became the No.1 test team? It works both ways.

Because Dhoni had little to do with India becoming the number 1 test team except that he happened to be captain. Unless you can give me instances where his captaincy was instrumental in winning India tests like I have given you specific tactical incidents which led us to losing tests your point has no weight except being a lose attempt to equate correlation with causation. And I'll even help you start by quoting one Nagpur test example.

[Sidhoni]

Because Dhoni had little to do with India becoming the number 1 test team except that he happened to be captain. Unless you can give me instances where his captaincy was instrumental in winning India tests like I have given you specific tactical incidents which led us to losing tests your point has no weight except being a lose attempt to equate correlation with causation. And I'll even help you start by quoting one Nagpur test example.

Captain is as good as the team. You will seldom find instances where a team won only because of a tactical move by the captain.

[The Outsider]

Captain is as good as the team. You will seldom find instances where a team won only because of a tactical move by the captain.

But Dhoni has lost matches on his own or at least lost the opportunity to win matches.

[Sidhoni]

But Dhoni has lost matches on his own or at least lost the opportunity to win matches.

Yeah right. He is the sole person responsible for the collective batting and bowling failures during 0-8.

[SLICKR392]

But Dhoni has lost matches on his own or at least lost the opportunity to win matches.

Agree with outy here. He missed out on a lot of triples and quadruple centuries when India's top order were doing plenty and hence we lost 0-8.

[Old guy]

Agree with outy here. He missed out on a lot of triples and quadruple centuries when India's top order were doing plenty and hence we lost 0-8.

he did not meant that i expect sid to reply like this not you.. what he meant was he gave away wins vs west indies,his wrong decisions costed us games.. not the team but his decisions the guys he picks.. tell me the squad he is building now in which rahane and no batsman who is any good is given chance will it win even a game after 10 tries away from home ? he has not learnt anything from his mistakes ,another example will be how many times his field spreading has let opponent get away ? he deserve all the credit for it!

[Old guy]

ms dhoni winning match again for australia :proud: remember htis moment guys see the feild see how best bowlers are not bowling :hatsoff: and soon starc will be on 50 and smith on 100

[SLICKR392]

he did not meant that i expect sid to reply like this not you.. what he meant was he gave away wins vs west indies,his wrong decisions costed us games.. not the team but his decisions the guys he picks.. tell me the squad he is building now in which rahane and no batsman who is any good is given chance will it win even a game after 10 tries away from home ? he has not learnt anything from his mistakes ,another example will be how many times his field spreading has let opponent get away ? he deserve all the credit for it!

Where did I say his captaincy is good enough in Test. In fact I have always wanted him to be sacked as a captain. Winning matches "on his own" -what does that have to do with his captaincy? I have criticized his field setup, selection on other threads and I am not a fanboy but having a go after him on baseless stuffs in as annoying as a fanboy worshiping him on every single thread.

[Old guy]

Where did I say his captaincy is good enough in Test. In fact I have always wanted him to be sacked as a captain. Winning matches "on his own" -what does that have to do with his captaincy? I have criticized his field setup, selection on other threads and I am not a fanboy but having a go after him on baseless stuffs in as annoying as a fanboy worshiping him on every single thread.

but he has costed us matches..infact he has costed us our future by picking wrong players

[SLICKR392]

but he has costed us matches..infact he has costed us our future by picking wrong players

Abbey..when did I disagree to that? You give him Sobers or Kallis he would still end up picking Jaddu in the XI.

[Old guy]

Abbey..when did I disagree to that? You give him Sobers or Kallis he would still end up picking Jaddu in the XI.

outy did not said his batting costed us games! things like this are not only costing us games but are setting back our cricket by 2-3 years!