TRUNDLERS GALORE - Buy one, get one free!!!

[msb1991]

I believe that India's pitches are the main cause for the lack of fast bowlers at state domestic level. The problem of pitches is two fold: 1) The pitches have no grass covering which means that they do not skid through and any bounce is merely vertical and so does not trouble batsmen. 2) The pitches are so flat that bowlers have to bowl 20-30 overs an innings. It is not possible to do this at a high pace and so bowlers adapt and slow down. There are other players like the naturally weak build of Indians compared to Australians or South Africans and the hot weather but pitches are in India's partial control and should be adjusted. The BCCI should also look to employ the best fast bowling coaches and take on the MRF as a off season time academy for youth bowlers. Consequently turning the NCA's pace bowling section into a haven for those who are on the drifts of international selection. The coaches already include Dennis Lillee part time and TA Sekhar part time. They should look to make the latter into a more prominant role as a bowling consultant. It is no coincidence that he turned Pathan from wreck into ODI bowler in 2007, he is a good coach. However, he has his own ideas for bowlers rather than looking at what their past success was - so he should work more with youth. I think a primary concern for this youth academy should be the elimination of no balls for domestic fast bowlers. 3 or 4 in a match is fine, but you see bowlers bowling about 10 per innings consistently, and you wonder if it has ever been worked on. Wasim and Waqar would be good for the NCA. Both have prominant roles in Pakistan and if they can be defected to India, they could be a great help. Wasim Akram showed success with Pathan in the Champions Trophy (albeit shortly) and both are experts on the art of swing. There was no books on reverse swing when they did it, they worked it out and such knowhow could be invaluable. I also think that the BCCI should look to concentrate more on the fitness of fast bowlers. Talent is fast tracked into the international team whereas it should fast track them into the fast bowling wing of the NCA where fitness should be a main concern. Sreesanth, Zaheer Khan, RP Singh, Munaf Patel, Agarkar have all been struck with injuries in the past two months and it is not on. Bowlers should be put into a peak physical state before entering the international team. There is no place in Test sqauds for such development, it should be done outside the team which brings me on to my next point. Trundlers such as Ranadeb Bose and Joginder Sharma who presumably (have barely seen either bowl) have great accuracy should be in Test squads in my opinion. In a Test innings, you will get approx. 15-5-40-1 from them and you need reliable people as reserves in the case of a niggle for one Test. This may lower the value of the Test cap, but I am firmly sure that a reserve player, in case of a one Test absense should be reliable and you should not be fast tracking people for such occasions. Ideally of course, you will have the reserve strings of your team, such as Munaf Patel, but as seen by this series, that is not always the case. Finally, I think that the Indian bowling department (I guess it is just Prasad, but if they can establish a team, even if not all are with the main team, it would be good), should help people realise what is expected of them at international level. I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar (or should that be pound) that Bose did not know until recently that he had to bowl 130kph to be selected, or else he would not have made a conscious effort to slow down in recent years. Whereas a Joginder Sharma seems to be bowling at 85% like a normal medium pace bowler and simply does not have the build or action to bowl fast, Bose has looked like he could give a lot more in the time I have seen him. Sorry about the rant. It is my two passions, Indian cricket and fast bowling, mixed in with my interest in the importance of domestic cricket.

[msb1991]

S Clark, M Asif Enough said

I had a long discussion with my cousin about this. If you have experience at a high level, which Clark does at Australian domestic level, then it is fine to bowl at 125kph. Similarly, if you can move the ball like no other in the country (world?), like Asif can, it is also fine to bowl 125kph.

[msb1991]

I would like to think he is quite quick' date=' unless of course he has lost a lot of pace off late.[/quote'] I have an eye for speed gun readings, he seldom clocks at 135kph.

[Ram]

I have an eye for speed gun readings' date=' he seldom clocks at 135kph.[/quote'] Well, looks like the eye you had on speed guns is not that sharp after all. -AEcoPJDt98

[msb1991]

Well, looks like the eye you had on speed guns is not that sharp after all. -AEcoPJDt98

He really has slowed down recently, I really don't remember him bowling this fast. Maybe it was a one off match of very good rhythm.

[Ram]

He really has slowed down recently' date=' I really don't remember him bowling this fast. Maybe it was a one off match of very good rhythm.[/quote'] VKPy3BgP02o Maybe he was just good rhythm this day too... P.S - Almost all of his balls were around 82-83 mph, which translates to 133-134 kmph.

[msb1991]

VKPy3BgP02o Maybe he was just good rhythm this day too... P.S - Almost all of his balls were around 82-83 mph, which translates to 133-134 kmph.

But not 135kph (83.9mph). I do keep an eye out for speed gun readings, but evidently I do not have a good memory.

[novpj]

Pollock, Clark, Vass, Asif and even Tanvir show that you can play at the international level w/o bowling above 135K consistently. Sami, Taylor and Tait show that focusing on pace alone doesnt work. The problem with Indian trundlers is that they slow down with focus on line and length but what separates Pollock's of the wolrd from Indian trundlers is their ability to swing and seam the ball both ways.

[Donny]

I have been totally converted by Gats and company to an extent that I now believe no fast bowler who averages less than 135 kmph should come into the national team' date=' unless he can bat a bit.[/quote'] So, you would miss out on the McGraths, Clarks, Bedsers, Asifs etc. Fortunately for you, you'd still be able to sneak that Proteas trundler, Shaun Pollock, in - as he bats a bit. :regular_smile:

[Gambit]

I believe that India's pitches are the main cause for the lack of fast bowlers at state domestic level. The problem of pitches is two fold: 1) The pitches have no grass covering which means that they do not skid through and any bounce is merely vertical and so does not trouble batsmen. 2) The pitches are so flat that bowlers have to bowl 20-30 overs an innings. It is not possible to do this at a high pace and so bowlers adapt and slow down. There are other players like the naturally weak build of Indians compared to Australians or South Africans and the hot weather but pitches are in India's partial control and should be adjusted. The BCCI should also look to employ the best fast bowling coaches and take on the MRF as a off season time academy for youth bowlers. Consequently turning the NCA's pace bowling section into a haven for those who are on the drifts of international selection. The coaches already include Dennis Lillee part time and TA Sekhar part time. They should look to make the latter into a more prominant role as a bowling consultant. It is no coincidence that he turned Pathan from wreck into ODI bowler in 2007, he is a good coach. However, he has his own ideas for bowlers rather than looking at what their past success was - so he should work more with youth. I think a primary concern for this youth academy should be the elimination of no balls for domestic fast bowlers. 3 or 4 in a match is fine, but you see bowlers bowling about 10 per innings consistently, and you wonder if it has ever been worked on. Wasim and Waqar would be good for the NCA. Both have prominant roles in Pakistan and if they can be defected to India, they could be a great help. Wasim Akram showed success with Pathan in the Champions Trophy (albeit shortly) and both are experts on the art of swing. There was no books on reverse swing when they did it, they worked it out and such knowhow could be invaluable. I also think that the BCCI should look to concentrate more on the fitness of fast bowlers. Talent is fast tracked into the international team whereas it should fast track them into the fast bowling wing of the NCA where fitness should be a main concern. Sreesanth, Zaheer Khan, RP Singh, Munaf Patel, Agarkar have all been struck with injuries in the past two months and it is not on. Bowlers should be put into a peak physical state before entering the international team. There is no place in Test sqauds for such development, it should be done outside the team which brings me on to my next point. Trundlers such as Ranadeb Bose and Joginder Sharma who presumably (have barely seen either bowl) have great accuracy should be in Test squads in my opinion. In a Test innings, you will get approx. 15-5-40-1 from them and you need reliable people as reserves in the case of a niggle for one Test. This may lower the value of the Test cap, but I am firmly sure that a reserve player, in case of a one Test absense should be reliable and you should not be fast tracking people for such occasions. Ideally of course, you will have the reserve strings of your team, such as Munaf Patel, but as seen by this series, that is not always the case. Finally, I think that the Indian bowling department (I guess it is just Prasad, but if they can establish a team, even if not all are with the main team, it would be good), should help people realise what is expected of them at international level. I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar (or should that be pound) that Bose did not know until recently that he had to bowl 130kph to be selected, or else he would not have made a conscious effort to slow down in recent years. Whereas a Joginder Sharma seems to be bowling at 85% like a normal medium pace bowler and simply does not have the build or action to bowl fast, Bose has looked like he could give a lot more in the time I have seen him. Sorry about the rant. It is my two passions, Indian cricket and fast bowling, mixed in with my interest in the importance of domestic cricket.

Some good thoughts msb. The bold faced text has probably hit the nail on the head regarding the steady stream of trundlers we hear of.

[MundaPakistani]

For M Asif it doesn't matter if he bowls at 130 KPH because he has the ability to bowl those massive cutters. It is only a problem when people like M Patel and M Sami start bowling at 132-133 KPh.

[MundaPakistani]

MM, Check the speeds nDzECyMIjtc

[Dinx - the Jinx]

doda ganesh, t kumaran, pharas mhambrey, david johnson (who ran in faster than he bowled), tinu yohannan (one series wonder)... in the 90s and 2000's chetan sharma, sanjeev sharma, sharma hi sharma in the 80s

[gator]

nice video, Mundapak.... It was an excellent spell..... Asif along with Steyn and Clark are the most promising of the current crop.... Michelle and Tait are all hype, especially the left-armer...

[msb1991]

Some good thoughts msb. The bold faced text has probably hit the nail on the head regarding the steady stream of trundlers we hear of.

Thanks. I think that the improvement of fast bowlers could also be incorperated into my idea to make the Duleep Trophy into the main FC competition and provide high quality zonal competitions of five zones (of which I think there are in the Duleep Trophy) plus one overseas team. Five teams could allow a strong distribution of coaches among those seen as the best players. For example, on the fast bowling front: TA Sekhar Dennis Lillee Wasim Akram Waqar Younis Ian Pont These are just examples, but I am sure there are five high quality fast bowling coaches that the BCCI could find. This would be far more efficient than picking a mere 20 or so to the NCA or private MRF Foundation where there can only be one head coach. Although, an NCA fast bowling academy should exist two, as well as the MRF, both mentioned in my previous post.

[msb1991]

May I bump this thread to ask how people like Joginder Sharma and Rajat Bhattia succeed in international at paces of 120kph and 105kph respectively. I am most certainly an U16 lower order batsman and I can negotiate 105kph with the limited movement which Bhattia possesses. Is it a lack of discipline of the batsmen?

[dial_100]

Let take honor to take IS out of this list please.... This guy managed 152KPH... in that game other day... . He has been consistently 140+ for entire season.

[Gambit]

Praveen Kumar from what I have seen is a trundler. Alex Wharfesque.

[Holysmoke]

May I bump this thread to ask how people like Joginder Sharma and Rajat Bhattia succeed in international at paces of 120kph and 105kph respectively. I am most certainly an U16 lower order batsman and I can negotiate 105kph with the limited movement which Bhattia possesses. Is it a lack of discipline of the batsmen?

You're under 16?:omg:

[msb1991]

You're under 16?:omg:

Why is that so shocking?