What is MS Dhoni's biggest achievement as captain?

[adi B]

The previous two matches that you compare to (and conveniently leave out the Test match at MCG just so that you can make a case) are the ones were India batted first. In the last Test match at Adelaide' date=' India let Australia score 604 the highest in the whole series. Talk about improvement.[/quote'] aus scored more than 659/4 in sydney IIRC..correct ur facts

[Crookbond]

Promoting Yuvi in the batting order despite him being in poor form. Successfully managing Yuvi as front line spinner throughout the tournament. Promoting himself ahead of Yuvi in final despite his poor form and Yuvi's form Picking Raina for knock out despite poor form and just playing a single league game for crucial Knock outs. Picking Nehra ahead of Ashwin for the Semi final. Yep it has nothing to with captaincy we won the world cup despite having one of the weakest bowling attacks.

Actually BG here is what generally happens - IF Dhoni misses something (and ICF catches it) - Such an idiot! He's a cardboard. Once the match is lost blame Rhiti, CSK and Srinivasan. IF Dhoni is right on the money (and ICF doesn't catch it) - Oh, it's all luck. You can't justify that because he does it once. For starters, in a thread of "achievements" you have people posting "failures" :facepalm: Next, lets see people own up that they were wrong about Vijay, Dhawan and Jadeja & that they should not play against Australia. I also had few people suggest B Kumar shouldn't play against Australia in the home series as well. I wonder where they are hiding.

[Crookbond]

659/4 in the same series. From 37/3. :giggle:

I think you should check the scorecard of the Sydney test. :giggle:

aus scored more than 659/4 in sydney IIRC..correct ur facts

Oh, I stand corrected but my point still holds. 603 vs 659 ... 56 runs due to magnificent Sehwag's captaincy. What an improvement!

[Pagalpanti]

I don't give much importance to T20. It's a lottery format and there is too much of chance, cowlashing, and darting involved in it for me to seriously consider it to be even cricket. What about the World Cup? Correlation does not mean causation. Dhoni played a great knock in the final, but what was his contribution as kaptaan towards winning the Cup? Any mind blowing tactics like Crowe used in the '92 WC? Any innovations like Ranatunga did in '96? Giving Chawla kaaphidense? Playing a bowler with a 6+ career economy rate in the finals and keep bowling him? I'll give this much, Dhoni handled Zaheer well in the tournament.

Oh how about restricting Aussies to 260 on a flat pitch in QF and defending 260 in Mohali which was again a flat beauty? You make it sound like India was gonna win the World cup with/without Dhoni's captaincy.

Yeah' date=' Sehwag is expected to turn a bruised and battered team around in 1 test? No wonder you put the smiley in your post.[/quote'] Isn't that why your criticizing Dhoni? The very fact that he couldn't motivate players enough to show fight, what good a captain is if he needs a team on a high? Sehwag got a chance to show everyone that it was Dhoni who was the culprit not the team for the failings away but alas it was proved otherwise.

[The Outsider]

Promoting Yuvi in the batting order despite him being in poor form.

Promote where? Yuvraj batted at 4,5, and 6. That's where he normally bats anyway.

Successfully managing Yuvi as front line spinner throughout the tournament.

LOL! Yuvraj bowled brilliantly, so was able to operate as a front line bowler. When he was getting b!tchslapped in the recent matches where did Dhoni's management go? Company Garden?

Promoting himself ahead of Yuvi in final despite his poor form and Yuvi's form

Nothing to say that Yuvraj would not have scored given the form he was in. Anyways, keeping a left-right combination is not exactly stuff of genius that it needs mentioning.

Picking Raina for knock out despite poor form and just playing a single league game for crucial Knock outs.

Obvious move. Pathan had done jack the entire tournament. It would have been dumb to keep playing him.

Picking Nehra ahead of Ashwin for the Semi final.

Obvious move again. Against Pakistan it makes sense to play the extra seam bowler.

[rkt.india]

The discussion and thread is about Dhoni's captaincy and the potential impact it had on the tests on those two tours. Batting and bowling have been discussed in many other threads. Your bringing them in is nothing but a distraction to the topic of discussion also called red herring.

Captaincy tactics alone cannot make difference of win or loss until your batting and bowling are not working. We were literally playing with 2 bowlers once Zak got injured at Lords. Third was Bhajji.

[adi B]

outy said anyone could do better than dhoni and tbf sehwag did lol,we didnt lose by an innings .. anyway fact is dhoni looked clueless in both england and aus and we were ranked top 3 at that time..it was shameful to see us lose like that and dhoni was unperturbed :facepalm:

[The Outsider]

Oh' date=' I stand corrected but my point still holds. 603 vs 659 ... 56 runs due to magnificent Sehwag's captaincy. What an improvement! [/quote'] No your point does not hold because first you are expecting an improvement in one test which in itself is a dumb condition. And secondly it has clearly been pointed out that the "slight improvement" you were looking for happened.

[The Outsider]

That's fair enough but you can't "blame" Dhoni alone for not wanting to bowl Ishant. It was not as if it wasn't apparent to him that Ishant should bowl. He wanted to but Ishant asked for a breather - so Dhoni can't bowl for Ishant.

The final responsibility is with the captain. Plain and simple. If Ishant is too much of a sissy, the captain should show him the door.

Since, you bring Alan Border - he along with Simpson wouldn't have let Dravid, Laxman and possibly Tendulkar tour Australia and may have ended Ishant's (or even Zaheer and Sehwag's) careers. Lets not talk about extreme setups here.

Why? Dravid scored 3 hundreds in England and 1 in West Indies. Laxman and Tendulkar had been exceptional in South Africa only a year back. Why would they be dropped. Anyhow, there is nothing extreme in asking your strike bowler to bowl a spell after a 45 minute break like forcing someone to bat through while throwing up in the Chennai heat.

[Number]

Oh' date=' I stand corrected but my point still holds. 603 vs 659 ... 56 runs due to magnificent Sehwag's captaincy. What an improvement! [/quote'] And 3 more wickets. :giggle: Sehwag is bullshit when it comes to thinking. He doesn't even bother half the time. In a long run he would have been a poor captain but he still captained better than Dhoni did if you look into the game and the whole series without bias. Just shows how crap Dhoni was in that tour.

[deathmonger]

Promote where? Yuvraj batted at 4,5, and 6. That's where he normally bats anyway. LOL! Yuvraj bowled brilliantly, so was able to operate as a front line bowler. When he was getting b!tchslapped in the recent matches where did Dhoni's management go? Company Garden? Nothing to say that Yuvraj would not have scored given the form he was in. Anyways, keeping a left-right combination is not exactly stuff of genius that it needs mentioning. Obvious move. Pathan had done jack the entire tournament. It would have been dumb to keep playing him. Obvious move again. Against Pakistan it makes sense to play the extra seam bowler.

What does this mean? Heard it in Omkara too.

[Pagalpanti]

outy said anyone could do better than dhoni and tbf sehwag did lol,we didnt lose by an innings .. anyway fact is dhoni looked clueless in both england and aus and we were ranked top 3 at that time..it was shameful to see us lose like that and dhoni was unperturbed :facepalm:

India didn't lose by an innings because Aussies didn't inflict follow on upon us. India's combined total of both innings 473 was way below Australia's 1st inning total of 604

[The Outsider]

Oh how about restricting Aussies to 260 on a flat pitch in QF and defending 260 in Mohali which was again a flat beauty? You make it sound like India was gonna win the World cup with/without Dhoni's captaincy.

Pretty much.

Isn't that why your criticizing Dhoni? The very fact that he couldn't motivate players enough to show fight, what good a captain is if he needs a team on a high? Sehwag got a chance to show everyone that it was Dhoni who was the culprit not the team for the failings away but alas it was proved otherwise.

I am not criticizing Dhoni because he failed to do so over a grand total of 1 test match. I am criticizing him because he continued to do so match after match. And would criticize Sehwag as well if he failed to do it match after match. See the difference? Anyhow my criticism is beyond the motivation factor as well. I've pointed out specific tactical blunders.

India were gonna bat last, not really a position India were in to keep gambling. The bigger picture of losing the series also was there to think of. Again its hindsight just because they changed the field does it mean had they persisted with it Kallis would've gotten out? for all we know they could've scored quicker and have more overs to bowl at us and the 1-1 could've easily been 1-2.

It's not a question of keep gambling. South Africa were the ones under the cosh and in deep sh!t. They had lost half their side for 60-70 runs. Attacking in that situation is not called a gamble. A gamble would have been if South Africa were 160/4.

[The Outsider]

India didn't lose by an innings because Aussies didn't inflict follow on upon us. India's combined total of both innings 473 was way below Australia's 1st inning total of 604

India also took 12 wickets in the match and dismissing half the side for 150 in the second innings was legendary stuff compared to what had happened in the previous two tests. Anyhow, there is no denying that the Adelaide performance was crap as well but to expect a captain to effect a change in 1 test is in itself a dumb expectation.

[rkt.india]

At Lords, India were 188 runs behind England's first innings, so no way we were going to win that match after conceding such a big lead.

[adi B]

India didn't lose by an innings because Aussies didn't inflict follow on upon us. India's combined total of both innings 473 was way below Australia's 1st inning total of 604

ok but what about the rest of the post

[adi B]

At Lords' date=' India were 188 runs behind England's first innings, so no way we were going to win that match after conceding such a big lead.[/quote'] prior-broad scored the runs quickly which should have been avoided,maybe india would have drawn

[rkt.india]

And 3 more wickets. :giggle: Sehwag is bullshit when it comes to thinking. He doesn't even bother half the time. In a long run he would have been a poor captain but he still captained better than Dhoni did if you look into the game and the whole series without bias. Just shows how crap Dhoni was in that tour.

Agree. Dhoni is a poor overseas captain because he does not know how handle pacers and extract the best out of them. He can do it with spinners but he has little clue in terms of using pacers and the reason we do not have a decent fast bowling pool as whenever a bowler gets injured, we have to think where the next bowler will come from.

[rkt.india]

outy said anyone could do better than dhoni and tbf sehwag did lol,we didnt lose by an innings .. anyway fact is dhoni looked clueless in both england and aus and we were ranked top 3 at that time..it was shameful to see us lose like that and dhoni was unperturbed :facepalm:

That is because didn't make India follow on.

[rkt.india]

prior-broad scored the runs quickly which should have been avoided' date='maybe india would have drawn[/quote'] Absolutely agree. We could not even get them out despite having McGrath-Warne in our team.