panther Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Shias have a different account: http://www.islamawareness.net/Deviant/Shia/ghadir2.html Lets say the shia are right that only the family of the prophet(pbuh) can lead the muslims, doesn't that contradict what the Prophet(pbuh) said in his last sermon no arab is superior to a non arab.
Muloghonto Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 Lets say the shia are right that only the family of the prophet(pbuh) can lead the muslims' date=' doesn't that contradict what the Prophet(pbuh) said in his last sermon no arab is superior to a non arab.[/quote'] Well, Arabs as a 'race/culture' can be held equal to all other peoples and still have a 'divine/special family'. This is a very old concept in middle eastern society that prevalence of Sunni Islam rooted out. The Babylonians, Persians & Medians believed in creating a multi-ethnic society with a divine family at the top. The Safavids as well as the followers of Agha Khan adhere to it. besides, if you think about it, the arabs, regardless of what the Koran or the Hadith says otherwise, already have a 'supreme human being' in the form of Mohammed- to the arabs/muslims, he is infallible, uncorruptable and the mouth of God. So technically, even if the arabs didnt have a 'superior family' (Which the fatimids did), they'd still have one 'superior man' above and beyond rest of humanity, therefore, logically, making the arab race superior (by the virtue of having one man, who is an arab, superior to all men).
Ultimate_Game Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 what shariah law has to do with violence?uneducated?ignorant? anyway Islam is the most peaceful religion & we love it and its laws,we are happy in pakistan & love each others,but there are conspiracies against pak and Islam all over the world,we will win the challenge inshallah, :haha: Like always excuses and kaanspiracy theories... it's not us but the whole world is jealous of us and creating trouble :giggle: It's everyone's fault but ours :dontknow: I'm sure 26/11 and 9/11 had nothing to do with Pakistan and Osama Bin Laden found in Pakistam was just a coincidence and part of a kaanspiracy :hysterical:
Muloghonto Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 The legal rulings of The 4 Imams is very similar if not identical on the major stuff on the small things they have a few differences but like I said this does not make you any less of a muslim. I never compared the 'level of muslimness' of one group to another. What makes one muslim and doesnt, beyond the nominal commonalities, is subjective. To some, not having a beard makes you 'unmuslim-like', to some, pants and shirts do the same. My point wasnt that one of these Imams is more muslim than another. They are all pretty much extremely muslim. My point is, they are all muslims, yet their idea of what constitutes muslim laws vary- in some cases minutely (Hanafi and Shafi) and in some cases, more so(maliki and ibadi). This fact- that they are all authorities on Islamic law,held and followed by millions, yet vary, leads to the only possible logical conclusion that this has been so because the holy texts of islam (Koran and hadiths) allows it to be so. Regarding the verse about satan etc the verses do not contradict each other the quran means recital or continuously recited in english, the more you read the more you understand. that may be so. My point is on a logical basis towards what constitutes perfection. Islam, in this regard, is much less developed, since Islamic theology has never actually allowed its adherents to explore the logical & reasonable conclusions pertaining to perfection, as Christianity has, which is very evident in the works of Thomas Aquinas,Augustine of Hippo, etc. There simply is nowhere close to the amount of material available in Islam as in Christianity, which explores the very concept of 'perfection'. As such, there are a lot of half-baked ideas floating around Islam regarding perfection and (pardon me for saying this) none so more ridiculous than the concept of a 'perfect book', ala the Koran. Why is it so ridiculous ? well the answer is simple- a book is nothing more than a collection of thought expressed intelligbly via the means of a language, which has been given a physical form. Therefore, for a book to be perfect, the language has to be perfect. As such, there is no commonly held idea on what constitutes linguistic perfection and this, on a linguistic level, remains undefined. Even if you came up with scientific ideas of comparative analysis, such as morphological,gramatical or phoenetic consistencies, this completely breaks down when you compare some languages to another. How do you even begin to compare a tonal based contextual language, lacking any adjectives, such as Mandarin, with a non-tonal, heavily itemized language such as German ? That is, literally, comparing a Ferrari to a submarine. How do you even begin to compare Sanskrit, a highly morphologically consistent language, with Khoisan, where clicks/chuckles are actual words meaning different things based on tone ? Even if we were to construct a framework of comparison, based on mutual intelligibility, morphological, phoenetic, grammatical and syntactical consistency and compare languages that fit the bill, what do we find? We find that by any standards set, Arabic is far from a perfect language and infact, is a much more ambiguous and thus, less perfect, than several other languages in existence- such as Greek, German, Sanskrit and heavily Sanskritized hindi/Bengali, Korean, etc. So it leads to the logical fallacy of 'Koran is perfect'. It is a logical fallacy because as demonstrated above, a book cannot be perfect before a language is declared perfect,which is an undefined concept to begin with. On a side note,you never hear Christians adhering to the concept of a 'perfect book'. Not because the bible isnt perfect but because the concept of a perfect book is logically fallacious and has been demonstrated so by the members of the catholic church themselves.
kabbirann Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 what a graceless,classless thread. I 've no love for pakistan but there is a sense of gloating while talking about the deaths of folks in pakistan that is disturbing.
Number Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 what a graceless,classless thread. I 've no love for pakistan but there is a sense of gloating while talking about the deaths of folks in pakistan that is disturbing. And then comes religion. The issue is clearly ethnic and has hardly got anything to do with religion but people are so quick to bring that.
NareshK Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 And then comes religion. The issue is clearly ethnic and has hardly got anything to do with religion but people are so quick to bring that. It has to do with religion because the violence and unrest is between various sects of Muslims. Why should we be so PC to say it ? Also, I disagree that we should only worry about what's happening in India and not in other countries. Its this short sightedness which has cost India dearly in the past. Pakistan is a neighbor and India has to keep a close eye on what's happening there. Many of the terrorist attacks on Indian soil are sponsored from Pakistan. Its not in our best interest that situation disintegrates even further there and they become even more radicalized.
Recommended Posts