Pace bowling and development of a pace bowler in India

[The Outsider]

Resting Rp singh is will be disaster dude, i hope bcci wont think like u. I mean how did u even get the thought.... i mean Aus / Pak are the 2 biggest tournaments for us.

Just like resting Zaheer from the T20 WC was a disaster, right?

[Chandan]

BCCI usually kills the goose that lays the golden egg. Win or lose, we need to follow a Systematic Rotation policy. Else, we wont sustain. We need to sustain best players 4 years for next World Cup 2011 atleast!

I agree. So let us discuss which bowlers can we have, to be rotated: Zaheer Irfan RPS Sree Munaf ? Ishant? Agarkar I could find just 7 in which at least 3 of them have huge questionmarks, regarding fitness or form or sheer readiness at the international level. Can you people suggest some more names?

[living]

Just like resting Zaheer from the T20 WC was a disaster' date=' right?[/quote'] LOL, though thats what I thought too :giggle:

[fineleg]

I agree. So let us discuss which bowlers can we have, to be rotated: Zaheer Irfan RPS Sree Munaf ? Ishant? Agarkar I could find just 7 in which at least 3 of them have huge questionmarks, regarding fitness or form or sheer readiness at the international level. Can you people suggest some more names?

Chandan, Win or Loss, Like it or Not we have to do it. Definitely keep AA, Munaf Patel, Ishant Sharma in the mix - despite their problems. Add: 1. Ranadeb Bose 2. Gagandeep Singh 3. VRV Singh (yes he will gift boundaries to some) 4. too early for Yo Mahesh? to the mix. Yep, I know we may lose with some of these guys. But, either they improve - it is a chance for them or, we atleast preserve RPS, ZK et.al for the long term still by this rotation.

[Chandan]

Chandan, Win or Loss, Like it or Not we have to do it. Definitely keep AA, Munaf Patel, Ishant Sharma in the mix - despite their problems. Add: 1. Ranadeb Bose 2. Gagandeep Singh 3. VRV Singh (yes he will gift boundaries to some) 4. too early for Yo Mahesh? to the mix. Yep, I know we may lose with some of these guys. But, either they improve - it is a chance for them or, we atleast preserve RPS, ZK et.al for the long term still by this rotation.

Ranadeb Bose is a terrible one day bowler. I've seen him in the Deodhar trophy this year and he was just...rubbish! I think we can give Gangandeep Singh a break in ODIs with two of the main bowlers oprating. The guy is good. VRV is utterly useless for limited over format and he is a terrible fielder too. I think we should give chance to Ishant and YoMahesh to get a bit more ready. They are too young at this level. We can give them breaks if we're playing minnows, but not against Australia. That way, we still end up with just 7 bowlers: Zaheer Irfan RPS Sree Munaf Agarkar Gagandeep. So this is the only list we have. Maybe Ishant and YoMahesh be ready by next year!!

[fineleg]

The point is Chandan - actually there are two points: 1. First, we should not be playing so many back to back matches in a short timeframe. 2. Given that BCCI greed means that there will be so many matches scheduled without rest period, we have to field "some 11". We just have to keep in mind the important series...example, "Test series against Aus" is super important series. Keep that perspective, for the rest of ODIs - field some general 11 for some odis and field a great 11 for some ODIs. Mix it up. Not much choice really if we want to keep main players raring to go in the Test series against Aus.

[dial_100]

Wonder, why arent we talking about the same policy for batters as well. I would want to rest Dhoni and Yuv in ODIs for few games. Again roate them with few Sr. for few games. They have been playing for 3 mos as well.

[fineleg]

Wonder' date=' why arent we talking about the same policy for batters as well. I would want to rest Dhoni and Yuv in ODIs for few games. Again roate them with few Sr. for few games. They have been playing for 3 mos as well.[/quote'] Absolutely. Fast bowlers are more injury prone. But, I agree many of the batters need to be rotated. The wicketkeeper+captain+batsman MSD certainly needs rest as well.

[Chandan]

The point is Chandan - actually there are two points: 1. First, we should not be playing so many back to back matches in a short timeframe. 2. Given that BCCI greed means that there will be so many matches scheduled without rest period, we have to field "some 11". We just have to keep in mind the important series...example, "Test series against Aus" is super important series. Keep that perspective, for the rest of ODIs - field some general 11 for some odis and field a great 11 for some ODIs. Mix it up. Not much choice really if we want to keep main players raring to go in the Test series against Aus.

I hope the selectors keep that in mind. Vengsarkar seems to be the guy who values test cricket, but other 4 selectors...well I can't say. Had we played some lesser teams amidst facing these high class oppositions, we could have rested a few of our main players, but after this ODI series, we'll be playing Pak in ODIs and tests. It is extremely important to defeat Pak in the test series as I don't think we've defeated them in India since 1979. Then the tour in Australia is really, really important!! When we arrive home, SA will be waiting for us. So another series with good opposition. The coming time is really tough for our players.

Absolutely. Fast bowlers are more injury prone. But, I agree many of the batters need to be rotated. The wicketkeeper+captain+batsman MSD certainly needs rest as well.

They will be rotated, as Sachin, Ganguly and Dravid won't be playing all the ODIs. However when and how can we rest Dhoni, who is the skipper, remains to be seen!

[yoda]

I would prefer if they play fewer matches instead of rotating and bringing the level of play down. I don't think we have more than 5 quality ODI bowlers (RPS, IKP, ZAK, Powar, Harby). 6 with chawla who is out of the AUS series with a injury.

[Chaos]

Dude, I'm talking rotation - play him every 2 odis and rest him for an odi or two. Otherwise you will burn players out. Do you still not agree?

agree to a certain point but this is not 20/20 to rest key players. This is australia and we need all the key places till we win the series. The better option would be win first 4 games and give those fellows rest for the remaining matches :cantstop:

[fineleg]

agree to a certain point but this is not 20/20 to rest key players. This is australia and we need all the key places till we win the series. The better option would be win first 4 games and give those fellows rest for the remaining matches :cantstop:

Right - if only its as simple :D With BCCI scheduling so many stupid matches, a captain (and selectors also) need to decide WHICH ONE must be one in order of priority? The priority (from a humble fan's standpoint): Topmost 1. Win the AUS Test series - or if push comes to shove, definitely do not lose it 2. Win the PAK Test series - or if push comes to shove, definitely do not lose it 3. Aus ODI series Pak ODI series - IMO dont care that much.

[fineleg]

RP Singh must be rested for many of the Aussie and Pak ODIs We have this tradition of burning out fast bowlers. Insane # of ODIs, Tests etc ahead of Indian team. We cannot afford to burn out and injure a 21 year old fast bowler. Have a pool of 7-8 fast bowlers (whether they suck or not, we cannot help it too much, yes put the damn Agarkar in there, put the grandpa Munaf Patel in there). ROTATE THEM. Just do it as an organized process no matter how "great" a bowler is bowling. Otherwise you will burn out RP Singh, Sreesanth, ZAHEER KHAN et al with injuries and what not. BCCI and our captain need to take precious care of these players.

Bumping up my thread from 09.25.2007 This has happened now - the injurires "whether they suck or not, we cannot help it too much, yes put the damn Agarkar in there, put the grandpa Munaf Patel in there)."

[Cricketics]

aur karalo rest.. nazar lag gayi bechare ko..

[Ram]

Hmmm.. F'leg was almost prophetic on this occasion.

[fineleg]

Hmmm.. F'leg was almost prophetic on this occasion.

Many-a-times yaar :D

[fineleg]

Note: Thread title has been modified to "Pace bowling and development of a pace bowler in India' as per request by a forum member. Thx.

[Ram]

I'll be honest with you Finey, the new title makes zero sense. There seems to be no correlation between the different parts of the title. It sounds like, "The art of living and how he lived : Rajesh moved forward"

[Chandan]

Harsha Bhogle has lamented the lack of fast bowler in tests even though we won the last test series, away from home. I'm quoting the relevent part of his column: Where are the Test bowlers? By: Harsha Bhogle Friday November 16, 2007 Word is that India’s selectors were pleasantly surprised at how prepared Anil Kumble was for his first selection committee meeting. So it’s time now to assign virtue to normal behaviour. Captains must be prepared if they want to get the team they want and the news for everybody is that if this is a surprise there will be more coming from Kumble. ...... There were a couple of good things though that came out of Kumble’s first selection committee meeting. And a couple of disquieting things. India have picked three new ball bowlers out of the three that were, realistically, available. I guess the pecking order at the moment is Zaheer Khan, RP Singh and Sreesanth. But it is a pretty tiny list. Who is India's no. 4 seamer? And, since we must ask embarrassing questions, who is no. 5? Irfan Pathan might give the impression of a renaissance and more than anyone else I wish that were true. He is bowling well in one-day cricket but you can be a good one-day bowler without really threatening to take wickets all the time. The in-swing surfaces occasionally but his best ball is the slow cutter and that is not the best weapon in a test match. Realistically at the moment, he can play only as a fifth bowler but his captain and his selectors need to be convinced that he is a test no. 7 in all conditions. A couple of relaxed games for Baroda and batting at no. 5 will do him no harm. He will probably make the trip to Australia but it will, on current evidence, be not by right but by elimination. Which makes us wonder if all the recent investment in new ball bowlers has borne fruit. Ashish Nehra isn’t anywhere in sight, neither sadly is Balaji. VRV Singh turned out to be an expensive buy and you can never be sure about Munaf Patel. He would seem to be the right kind of bowler for Australian conditions but you never know which Munaf Patel turns up! No one is going to pick Ishant Sharma in a hurry, though he looked impressive in a couple of spells in the Challenger, and I fear the door is shut on Ranadeb Bose for the moment. If a mutual fund portfolio manager had made these picks he would be knocking on doors for a job. So if a selector has been assigned to watch Ajit Agarkar you know why!! Murali Kartik comes back, likeable and temperamental, but 31-year-old with eight tests in eight years. He is a far better cricketer than that but his return tells you a thing or two about the next best left arm spinner in India which, I suspect, is Pragyan Ojha. Kartik is probably India's best bad wicket bowler though he has often admitted that he is happier bowling on good pitches! So what were the good things that came out of the meeting? The best, and the most important, is that players not in the playing eleven will be released to play Ranji Trophy cricket. I actually believe the format followed in places like England is right where only the playing eleven remains at the ground once the game has started and the best local fielders are drafted in as substitutes. If for example, Kartik doesn’t get a game at Delhi, he is much better off playing for Railways than getting a tour of the new Kotla. Oh, and by the way, if a player believes he might lose out on his match fees, he is probably the wrong man anyway! The chairman of selectors won’t henceforth present himself for an interrogation either. In any case there isn’t much to be gained from it and it will hopefully lead to lesser analysis of the side and lesser reading between the lines which, of course, is the real problem. -------------------------------------------------------------- What are your views on this and the recent development of releasing players for the FC games if they are not in XI?

[fineleg]

I'll be honest with you Finey, the new title makes zero sense. There seems to be no correlation between the different parts of the title. It sounds like, "The art of living and how he lived : Rajesh moved forward"

Arre, actually it was supposed to be changed to - Pace bowling and development of a pace bowler in India (was: RP Singh rested...) The old title remnant was supposed to be in parantheses. I cannot change the title myself, so sent it to Mods. Anyway I got a request to make a change, and I accepted.