Raghav_12 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Some news item which is being discussed in another thread but relevant for discussion here. There a writer was arrested in UP for posting facebook comment which I believe is absolutely wrong and IPC 66A is being grossly misused. However Times of India found is very necessary to highlight the point that writer was Dalit. Their headlines read 'UP cops arrest dalit writer for Facebook post criticizing UP govt on Durga Nagpal issue' Can anybody tell how writer being Dalit important here? Is it because he is Dalit he has been arrested? There are two more important issues here- 1. Suspension of an IAS for wrong reasons 2. Threat to freedom expression. But i am sure in no time, people who are writing melodramatic stories on child's misery, without even knowing what exactly happened, will start writing that how Dalit writers are treated in UP. But that's how media sell their stories and how few of consumers jump on those to enhance their credentials.
The Outsider Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 And the narcissism continues. What does any of this have to do with a four year old boy who just discovered that none of the kids in his class will touch him and he had to leave the school because of who they say he is? It's like someone came and spat on your face and said "Welcome to your life!" but yeah, let's talk about reservation because that's the real problem here. Husshhh! That issue has already been resolved because an ICF poster went to school in the district and has attested that there is no caste discrimination there.
Prakat Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Some news item which is being discussed in another thread but relevant for discussion here. There a writer was arrested in UP for posting facebook comment which I believe is absolutely wrong and IPC 66A is being grossly misused. However Times of India found is very necessary to highlight the point that writer was Dalit. Their headlines read 'UP cops arrest dalit writer for Facebook post criticizing UP govt on Durga Nagpal issue' Can anybody tell how writer being Dalit important here? Is it because he is Dalit he has been arrested? There are two more important issues here- 1. Suspension of an IAS for wrong reasons 2. Threat to freedom expression. But i am sure in no time, people who are writing melodramatic stories on child's misery, without even knowing what exactly happened, will start writing that how Dalit writers are treated in UP. But that's how media sell their stories and how few of consumers jump on those to enhance their credentials. :congrats: well said. You are a credit to your society.
Prakat Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Husshhh! That issue has already been resolved because an ICF poster went to school in the district and has attested that there is no caste discrimination there. Yeah, that was very convenient.
Detonator Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Some news item which is being discussed in another thread but relevant for discussion here. There a writer was arrested in UP for posting facebook comment which I believe is absolutely wrong and IPC 66A is being grossly misused. However Times of India found is very necessary to highlight the point that writer was Dalit. Their headlines read 'UP cops arrest dalit writer for Facebook post criticizing UP govt on Durga Nagpal issue' Can anybody tell how writer being Dalit important here? Is it because he is Dalit he has been arrested? There are two more important issues here- 1. Suspension of an IAS for wrong reasons 2. Threat to freedom expression. But i am sure in no time, people who are writing melodramatic stories on child's misery, without even knowing what exactly happened, will start writing that how Dalit writers are treated in UP. But that's how media sell their stories and how few of consumers jump on those to enhance their credentials. This is a shameful attempt by TOI, to divert the focus on caste-ist things rather than the actual issue. It looks as if the article is in support of the writer but it doesn't. Another fun fact here is, the OP's article possibly be framed like this with the usage of word "dalit" there too. A blantant example of paid news. Again, most posters here who are incompetent think, see the real world and taking the issues in face value. Funny that they quote these stupid news articles as "proofs" and "evidence". Too much time in virtual world tends to dumb down the brain :giggle: It's almost a week since the OP's incident happened, is there any news on what happened next or anyone else knew whether the boy went to school on next day? NO. The issue might have been resolved, and the boy might have been attending school after issuing warnings to teacher/anyone who sparked this problem. I appreciate if I am proved wrong.
Raghav_12 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Husshhh! That issue has already been resolved because an ICF poster went to school in the district and has attested that there is no caste discrimination there. lol.. don't stoop down so low as to misrepresent my statements. I challenge you if you can show that I made statement "there is no caste discrimination" there" I'll quit ICF for good. If you couldn't show, you decide for yourself what you'll do. Are you ready to take that challenge, else apologise for deliberate, malicious misrepresentation?
The Outsider Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Yeah' date=' that was very convenient.[/quote'] Caste system is so deeply ingrained in the society and psyche that it's impossible to miss it. The funny bit is that posters underplaying it are accusing others of living in an internet cocoon. I've posted this incident earlier, but it probably deserves another mention to highlight how subjugated the psyche of Dalits is - I was drawing water from a well in a village and a woman asked me to stop. When I asked her why, she said that the well is for "chhoti jaati". I told her I don't care about "jaat paat" and she told me that "agar aap nahin maante ho to aap to nark jaaoge hi, lekin agar maine aap ko paani peene diye tou hum kyon nark jaayein aap ke saath". Can such a thinking evolve without years of systematic subjugation and oppression? And this is not some 18th century tale as some posters would have us believe.
The Outsider Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 lol.. don't stoop down so low as to misrepresent my statements. I challenge you if you can show that I made statement "there is no caste discrimination" there" I'll quit ICF for good. If you couldn't show, you decide for yourself what you'll do. Are you ready to take that challenge, else apologise for deliberate, malicious misrepresentation? I am just using your way of arguing where "a disgraceful moment in Indian cricket history" became "the most disgraceful moment in Indian cricket history". Did you quit ICF or apologize for that misrepresentation?
Crookbond Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 lol.. don't stoop down so low as to misrepresent my statements. I challenge you if you can show that I made statement "there is no caste discrimination" there" I'll quit ICF for good. If you couldn't show, you decide for yourself what you'll do. Are you ready to take that challenge, else apologise for deliberate, malicious misrepresentation? I would like to know what you meant in the highlighted. It came across to me as - TOI has reported a situation which did not exist. what do you think such people would stop using internet? would stop watching cricket? or would stop discussing things? Would like to know, in your opinion, what more important thing they'll have to do? People done by these laws will have to move on with life like any normal being, else they'll not survive. On first part of your post, you are not wrong if it has really happened the way you have described. But given my experience of the area and considering the sensationalism in which indian media indulges in, particularly ToI, I would prefer not to believe what has been written here. It could very well have been the case where child's father had a tiff with scholl principal and decided to teach him a lesson. I am not denying that caste system is very much there but this is a very unlikely occurence. This is not from Bhopal but from Bhind one of the remotest district in MP' date=' situated in Chambal valley and is my hometown. [b']And I don't believe this news as I did all of my schooling in very district only and there were enough people from all castes in all of my classes. No objection was ever raised. That is the ground reality. There might be some other reason for which child was asked to leave the school and people decided to make this an issue playing caste card. Don't bury your head but don't crane extra also to see things which are not there. I have done my whole schooling in this area and I can say that I had students from all castes in all of my classes from class 1 to class 12th. But people sitting on internet and without even having an idea about where that place is would know more then the person who spent majority of his years at the place.
Prakat Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Caste system is so deeply ingrained in the society and psyche that it's impossible to miss it. The funny bit is that posters underplaying it are accusing others of living in an internet cocoon. I've posted this incident earlier, but it probably deserves another mention to highlight how subjugated the psyche of Dalits is - I was drawing water from a well in a village and a woman asked me to stop. When I asked her why, she said that the well is for "chhoti jaati". I told her I don't care about "jaat paat" and she told me that "agar aap nahin maante ho to aap to nark jaaoge hi, lekin agar maine aap ko paani peene diye tou hum kyon nark jaayein aap ke saath". Can such a thinking evolve without years of systematic subjugation and oppression? And this is not some 18th century tale as some posters would have us believe. This is what these posters can never understand. The social programming that a Dalit kid undergoes is extremely damaging to their confidence and self-esteem. And this guy posts an irrelevant article to support his point as if the kid that no one wanted to sit next to because of which he was forced to leave the school (for one day, for a week, forever?) could just as easily have been a Thakur or a Pandit.
Detonator Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 I would like to know what you meant in the highlighted. It came across to me as - TOI has reported a situation which did not exist. How to believe TOI in the first place? The argument here is the credibilty if TOI's news, as no other major site has reported this (except few smaller site used TOI's same article) and not any news about what happened afterwards. Cocoon is getting smaller :giggle:
Detonator Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 This is what these posters can never understand. The social programming that a Dalit kid undergoes is extremely damaging to their confidence and self-esteem. And this guy posts an irrelevant article to support his point as if the kid that no one wanted to sit next to because of which he was forced to leave the school (for one day, for a week, forever?) could just as easily have been a Thakur or a Pandit. Once upon a time, there was a well in my village. I was drawing water from that well and there was a dalit boy, who came there, stole my water and ran away. The people who are watching this are laughing at me. Then his father returned the bucket. Moral of the Story: Truth, that which most easily appeals to the fears, hopes, and prejudices of the hearer; in essence, a lie. :--D
Raghav_12 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 I would like to know what you meant in the highlighted. It came across to me as - TOI has reported a situation which did not exist. didn't know you'll take that challenge onto you :giggle:? That was for outy. But yet, point out where I said there is no caste descrimination? I doubted credibility of the report and I said this particular event is very unlikely even though caste system is very much there. Are you going to show me where did I say that 'there is no caste discrimination'?
Prakat Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Detonator displays a shamelessly naked agenda when it comes to incidents of caste discrimination. ToI reports caste discrimination, it is a rag, therefore caste discrimination does not exist when he himself along with Raghav are prime evidence of it. We have our own version of Holocaust Deniers in ICF, the Casteism Deniers. :hehe:
Crookbond Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 How to believe TOI in the first place? The argument here is the credibilty if TOI's news, as no other major site has reported this (except few smaller site used TOI's same article) and not any news about what happened afterwards. Cocoon is getting smaller :giggle: You can not deny it DID NOT happen as well, just like you can not argue it did. Now, let us for argument sake accept your point that TOI is bluffing. Here's some news based on a 2 minute casual search from leading news organizations of India. I hope your cocoon (and ego) is large enough to digest this in 1 day. FYI - most of these incidents are within 3 days. I hope there is no planned propaganda against the upper caste members of this country. I also hope that news papers know the "ground realities" as well. Police turn a blind eye to harassment of minor Dalit girl http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/police-turn-a-blind-eye-to-harassment-of-minor-dalit-girl/article4992379.ece Activists condemn police brutality against Dalit girls http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Mangalore/activists-condemn-police-brutality-against-dalit-girls/article4991528.ece Dalit families thrown out of village for filing complaint http://www.deccanherald.com/content/349626/dalit-families-thrown-village-filing.html
Raghav_12 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 I am just using your way of arguing where "a disgraceful moment in Indian cricket history" became "the most disgraceful moment in Indian cricket history". Did you quit ICF or apologize for that misrepresentation? Caught red-handed, you are just bluffing. Everybody here can see your bluffing.
Raghav_12 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Detonator displays a shamelessly naked agenda when it comes to incidents of caste discrimination. ToI reports caste discrimination, it is a rag, therefore caste discrimination does not exist when he himself along with Raghav are prime evidence of it. We have our own version of Holocaust Deniers in ICF, the Casteism Deniers. :hehe: Resort to name calling when run out of valid points. Nothing new for you :giggle::giggle:
Crookbond Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 didn't know you'll take that challenge onto you :giggle:? That was for outy. But yet, point out where I said there is no caste descrimination? I doubted credibility of the report and I said this particular event is very unlikely even though caste system is very much there. Are you going to show me where did I say that 'there is no caste discrimination'? I just wanted a clarification - this is a public message board and I guess people can reply when they wanted to. Anyways, I just wanted a clarification on the topic. From what I understand, an unlikely event equates to unlikely caste discrimination in the OP district. Is that correct?
Raghav_12 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 I just wanted a clarification - this is a public message board and I guess people can reply when they wanted to. Anyways' date= I just wanted a clarification on the topic. From what I understand, an unlikely event equates to unlikely caste discrimination in the OP district. Is that correct? what childish logic is that? It is as good as saying that since 'children of all castes study together in school there is no caste discrimination'.
Crookbond Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 what childish logic is that? It is as good as saying that since 'children of all castes study together in school there is no caste discrimination'. :facepalm: Calm down - that is what I meant. You think that it was unlikely that were was discrimination against that particular dalit boy in his school, right?
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