Should India play 4 seamers now on greentops on overseas tours

[Mornantau]

Horses for Courses is Always the Key...... If its a Green top - v need 4 fast bowlers If it is a greenish brown pitch- 3 fast and Ashwin If its brownish than ashwin Amit (leg spinner) Umesh n bhvi

Thats exactly my point that we just keep following tradition in selecting 3 + 1 attack even on greentops in SA n Aus. N I feel the 1st test in a series in SA has always been a greentop in order to help the home team, thats where they always hit us hardest. So if we can take a few risks............make it horses for courses on greentops .... but maybe our mentality doesnt allow that kinda out of the way risk ?

[moniker]

But who are our 4 seamers? The only half decent fast bowler we have is Yadav. Bhuvi has to be given a proper run in tests, only then can we assess him. Who else? Pisshant? We have to go for our best 4 bowlers. We simply don't have the resources to opt for a horses for courses line of thought.

[cricketpitch]

I don't think India have 4 very good pace bowlers to make an impact in tests. you need to have 3 very good pacers and one decent pacer to play 4 pace bowlers in a single game. If your best bowler is a spinner, you play him anywhere you play. Example Warne, Ajmal, Swann etc.. in no way I am suggesting Indian spinners are equal to these bowlers but Pakistan, England, Australia had better pacers than India but they still played a spinner in most of the games because their spinner is a wicket taker. You only play bowlers who can take 20 wickets, you don't play bowlers just because you have them and the wicket assists them.

[Gunner]

If we decide to go with 4 seam bowlers then our pace attack should look like: Yadav Bhuvan Zaheer Shami If Zaheer is unable to prove his match fitness, then Ishwar Pandey should replace him. If we have to play a spinner on a normal overseas wicket that will take turn on Day 4 and 5, I'd rather go with an aggressive wrist spinner like Mishra.

[carnish]

We should play our best 4 bowlers ... No point playing bowlers like vinay Koomar just because its a green top. Yes, we should play with someone like zaheer on a green top if he is our 4th choice seamer. Similarly, we should play a 3rd spinner in India only if he good enough.

[Mornantau]

Some very good thots in here.

[Mornantau]

I don't think India have 4 very good pace bowlers to make an impact in tests. you need to have 3 very good pacers and one decent pacer to play 4 pace bowlers in a single game. If your best bowler is a spinner' date=' you play him anywhere you play. Example Warne, Ajmal, Swann etc.. in no way I am suggesting Indian spinners are equal to these bowlers but Pakistan, England, Australia had better pacers than India but they still played a spinner in most of the games because their spinner is a wicket taker. You only play bowlers who can take 20 wickets, you don't play bowlers just because you have them and the wicket assists them.[/quote'] Agreed but B-> your best bet as a fourth bowler could vary according to pitch n conditions. Also I want to ask this question , shud batting lineups also be varied a little as per pitch conditions ?

[Mornantau]

thanks for contributing views. Its made an interesting discussion

[SLICKR392]

On a green top, I wouldn't mind having 4 seamers along with Jadeja. That's a bit too much, even on green top but 4 good quicks is worth a shot. Zaheer, Bhuvi, Yadav, Shami/Pandey. Whereas, IIRC, in Perth, we had Ishant and Vinay besides Umesh and Zaheer which was an uber fail combination. Pandey and Bhuvi would only do us good if played ahead of Ashwin (on a green deck). Overall, its a long shot but worth it.

[G_B_]

Zaheer is not nailed on for a spot. I am not saying he will never play for India again. But he has a long way to go and has to prove himself. Need a very good India A and ranji outing to be considered. We all need to keep in mind that Umesh Bhuvi Pandey etc have not played enough tests for us to judge them. Bhuvi for example averages 40 with the ball. Now i know its in the pitches in the subcontinent and 4 matches on pitches where the assuie quicks struggled badly, but Bhuvi is still unproven. The fact is that in todays circumstances India should play a spinner + 3 quicks. We simple dont have the experience to go in with 4 seamer. Zaheer ---- last test played nearly a year ago and on the scrap heap making a come back Pandey--- never played a test Bhuvi--- 4 tests averaging 40 with ball Umesh--- 9 tests averaging 32.5 with ball Ishant Shrma-- unlucky, averaging 38 with the ball over many test matches. With the situation as it is one spinner + 3 quicks is the way forward atm. I personally dont agree on keeping Ashwin just cause he has had one bad series. Ashwin did not have a great series v England at home either.

[jf1gp_1]

we struggle to put 3 good seamers OP wants to play 4

[GrandMasterSaxy]

India is not short of fast bowlers anymore.... Bhuvi, Yadav, Ishant, Unadkat, Zak and quite a few more

we struggle to put 3 good seamers OP wants to play 4

[moniker]

we struggle to put 3 good seamers OP wants to play 4

India is not short of fast bowlers anymore.... Bhuvi, Yadav, Ishant, Unadkat, Zak and quite a few more

You really sure?

[GrandMasterSaxy]

Quite sure....

You really sure?

[rkt.india]

Khilaane layak 4 seamers hone bhi to chahiye.

[saneindian]

Exactly what we did at Perth and got thrashed by an innings!

[Mornantau]

we struggle to put 3 good seamers OP wants to play 4

We do but we struggle as an attack to pick up 20 wickets and on a greentop we are likely to be a more potent attack with 4 decent half decent seamers if each one picks 2 - 3 wickets. With 3 + 1 attack the spinner might get 1 wicket (on a greentop) and if one seamer starts going for runs then all the burden might be on only 1 or 2 bowlers. with 4 seamers we have some backup even if one goes for runs. Besides we've been trying the 3 + 1 attack everywhere even with top spinners like Kumble n I think in recent decades it hasnt worked in our favour on greentops. Actually might be an interesting statistic to explore how many wickets have kumble or Harbhajan got on a seamer friendly track.

[cricketpitch]

Agreed but B-> your best bet as a fourth bowler could vary according to pitch n conditions. Also I want to ask this question ' date=' shud batting lineups also be varied a little as per pitch conditions ?[/quote'] No we don't change batting as per the pitch conditions, that's the reason I said, most often your best 4 bowlers are your best 4 bowlers. Sometimes when you play 4 pacers, unless you think that those 4 bowlers can win you a match, you don't play them. Sometimes you can pick an extra spinner in Indian conditions which is fair enough as we have good spinners to play but 4 pacers is overkill for a team like India. Australia burnt their fingers playing all pace attack in Perth in 2008.