Vilander Posted September 27, 2013 Posted September 27, 2013 I don't consider Dhoni to be a 50-100 player, more like 20-30, but since I have some time to waste at the moment thought will list down whom I consider better and whether my perception is correct: Wicket Keepers: 1. Gilchrist 2. Sangakkara 3. De Villiers Batsmen: 4. Tendulkar 5. Richards 6. Dean Jones 7. Lara 8. Martin Crowe 9. M Waugh 10. Ganguly 11. Anwar 12. Miandad 13. M Hussey 14. Haynes 15. De Silva Bowlers: 16. Akram 17. McGrath 18. Warne 18. Murali 20. Marshall 21. Garner 22. Lee 23. Waqar 24. Saqlain 25. Ambrose 26. Donald 27. Holding All Rounders: 28. Kapil 29. Imran 30. Kallis 31. Pollock 32. Klusner 33. Jayasuriya 34. Cairns 35. Symonds Now, I agree some of them are borderline comparable with Dhoni, on whom personal judgments come into play, and I might have missed or included a few without checking stats, but it can be safely said Dhoni is not a top 20 international ODI cricketer. Cant argue with most in the list. but were Marshall,Garner etc great LOI bowlers...did they play LOI ? not too sure..if it is all time in all form then definitely Dhoni is not in TOP 50. If it is in all time ODI i think he will make it to top 50.. I am also a little suspect about Sanga as ODI bat. Sanga
rkt.india Posted September 27, 2013 Posted September 27, 2013 I don't give any importance to an IPL match. There are far too many part timers and trundler brigade in between a good fast bowler here and there. So numbers are a bit skewed. I was very impressed with Dhoni in that double hundred against Pattinson and company though. Wonderful hitting Remember Chennai ODI 100 against Pak.
Jersey #10 Posted September 27, 2013 Author Posted September 27, 2013 Dhoni is the greatest wicketkeeper batsman to have ever walked the cricket turf. Can anyone argue against that?
Ram Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 We might as well quit the discussion then. Because I don't rate Tendulkar's 136 below Lara's 153 just because Indian lost the match. Talking about ODIs, some of the best Tendulkar knocks, not just considered by me, but by many cricket experts the 143 at Sharjah or 175 against Australia, both in losing causes well beyond the realms of what one would expect any great cricketer to pull off. I am not saying the fact that India lost the match makes Sachin's 175 against Australia makes it any less of a great innings. But for me to look at somebody's career in entirety and label them as a 'great', they must have meaningful title wins under the belt. Now, I am not saying the player needs to multiple WC winners - obviously, that kind of a record would require you to be a certain team situation - but they must have propelled their team to at least a few memorable title triumps with their individual brilliance. I will give you a few examples - Akram in 92 WC, De Silva in 96 WC, Sachin in 98 Sharjah, Ponting in 2003 WC, Yuvraj in 2007 WC t20, Gilchrist in 2007 WC, Afridi 2009 T20 cup, Samuels in 2012 T20 cup etc. I want to reiterate - this is not about ranking individual innings. This is about the career in entirety. Lara has done the best that cricket as sport allows him in order to win matches' date=' like Jordan. If you put Jordan in some thakela team, he would have lost as well.[/quote'] Sure, it is a team game, but often times individual brilliance can make the difference between winning and losing. It is not being a finisher. It is about how you respond to, under pressure situations. Ganguly's underwhelming performances in the 2nd innings of an ODI game shows that he does not respond quite that well to pressure. The case of Warne or Mcgrath is an aberration. In almost all the other cases, the players that are mentioned have been the MVP of their team at some point in time.
Ram Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 Given that you seem to be ok with the initial criterion reg, career timelines, here's my first cut at pruning the list down. (after adding Dravid and Inzamam to the list) I don't consider Dhoni to be a 50-100 player, more like 20-30, but since I have some time to waste at the moment thought will list down whom I consider better and whether my perception is correct: Wicket Keepers: 1. Gilchrist 2. Sangakkara 3. De Villiers Batsmen: 4. Tendulkar 5. Richards 6. Dean Jones 7. Lara 8. Martin Crowe 9. M Waugh 10. Ganguly 11. Anwar 12. Miandad 13. M Hussey 14. Haynes 15. De Silva 15a. Dravid 15b. Inzamam Bowlers: 16. Akram 17. McGrath 18. Warne 18. Murali 20. Marshall 21. Garner 22. Lee 23. Waqar 24. Saqlain 25. Ambrose 26. Donald 27. Holding All Rounders: 28. Kapil 29. Imran 30. Kallis 31. Pollock 32. Klusner 33. Jayasuriya 34. Cairns 35. Symonds Now, I agree some of them are borderline comparable with Dhoni, on whom personal judgments come into play, and I might have missed or included a few without checking stats, but it can be safely said Dhoni is not a top 20 international ODI cricketer.
Ram Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 That leaves us with the following list of 28 players- Wicket Keepers: 1. Gilchrist 2. Sangakkara 3. De Villiers Batsmen: 4. Tendulkar 7. Lara 9. M Waugh 10. Ganguly 11. Anwar 13. M Hussey 15. De Silva 15a. Dravid 15b. Inzamam Bowlers: 16. Akram 17. McGrath 18. Warne 18. Murali 22. Lee 23. Waqar 24. Saqlain 25. Ambrose 26. Donald All Rounders: 30. Kallis 31. Pollock 32. Klusner 33. Jayasuriya 34. Cairns 35. Symonds
Ram Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 The following players, in my opinion, fail the consistency test. For whatever reason - cricketing (form) & non-cricketing (injury, attitude issues, politics, controversies etc) - they spent considerable time of the playing time outside the team, even though they may have been super-star performers during the time they did play. So i am going to cut them from the list as well - Wicket Keepers: 1. Gilchrist 2. Sangakkara 3. De Villiers Batsmen: 4. Tendulkar 7. Lara 9. M Waugh 10. Ganguly 11. Anwar 13. M Hussey 15. De Silva 15a. Dravid 15b. Inzamam Bowlers: 16. Akram 17. McGrath 18. Warne 18. Murali 22. Lee 23. Waqar 24. Saqlain - As great a bowler that Saqlain was, his international career, for all practical purposes lasted only 6-7 years. It was pretty clear that his effectiveness came down by half after international batsmen figured out how to play his doosra and he looked absolutely pedestrian after the Multan massacre by Sehwag. Sorry, I cant have this guy in my list. As brilliant as he was, to me, he was a nearly a one-trick pony. That one-trick helped get nearly 300 ODI wickets, but that is not enough to keep in contention in my opinion. Plus, he was strictly a one-dimensional player - Bowling and bowling only. His fielding was a liability and his ODI batting was nothing to shout about. 25. Ambrose 26. Donald All Rounders: 30. Kallis 31. Pollock 32. Klusner - An incredible hitter who gets high marks on his ability to soak up pressure and close out games. He was probably the game's most famous finisher after Bevan. But if I step back and take a look at his entire body of work (including his bowling), there isnt simply enough there for me to keep him in the conversation. 33. Jayasuriya 34. Cairns - A career simply too oftent disrupted by injury. You cannot be great if you are not even playing. 35. Symonds - A handy lower middle order bat, a useful spinner and a brilliant fielder. Symonds defined what a classic stereotype of a ODI player should be. But I see too many periods where was he was not in the team. He goes away too. This leaves us with these guys - Wicket Keepers: 1. Gilchrist 2. Sangakkara 3. De Villiers Batsmen: 4. Tendulkar 7. Lara 9. M Waugh 10. Ganguly 11. Anwar 13. M Hussey 15. De Silva 15a. Dravid 15b. Inzamam Bowlers: 16. Akram 17. McGrath 18. Warne 18. Murali 22. Lee 23. Waqar 25. Ambrose 26. Donald All Rounders: 30. Kallis 31. Pollock 33. Jayasuriya
Recommended Posts