Your picks for Indian bowling

[MCcricket]

I have seen the Challengers and by far Suyal was the best bowler, he beat the bat countless time and bowled very good Yorkers and simply was too pacy for those batters, Razdan and other commies who were ex players were wondering why he was not found yet.It is not rage but frustration , selectors and coach Dhoni simply missing the obvious.

[express bowling]

But surely you judge these "potent qualities" by the wickets they bring. In other words' date=' you go through who is the top domestic performers and you pick them in the India A team or Challenger Trophy and see who excels from that. At 127kph, the bowler has to be really really skilled [b']at all levels (club, domestic, international) in comparison to the 137kph bowlers. International batsmen are just the best domestic batsmen, they are not a different breed of human. .

Let's consider the longest version of the game to discuss this topic. Have we ever seen a pacer bowling in the 120 s become a great pace bowler in test matches ? I can't recall offhand. Yet, they have dominated 4 or 5 day games' domestic competition in almost every country. This has happened in India too. We have seen the Vinay Kumars dominating Ranji trophy but have never succeeded in tests. The 3 decent pacers India have had in tests have been either fast or fast medium. Yet Ranji trophy has had much bigger successes who have not done anything in tests. It must be that domestic batsmen often fall to low paced but otherwise good deliveries whereas international batsmen are able to play them.

Three McKay's would be a strong attack. McKay is a very successful bowler because he has that ability to take wickets with the new ball (his hattrick against England) and with the old ball using his slower ball. He is someone excellent with the new ball and yet he has bowled most often at first change and got 36 wickets at 21.97 in that position! I think Umesh has a ton of potential. However, I think that a bowler who produces poor returns is never preferable to someone who produces very good returns. When we're talking two bowlers, one who has good returns and one who has very good returns, then we can have a debate. At the moment though, Umesh is not in McKay's league as a limited overs bowler. Similarly, McKay is not in Umesh's league as a Test bowler.

I would like to see how long McKay is able to play for Australia. Somehow, they end up dropping medium pacers and finger spinners, no matter how good they are, and also end up with great bowling attacks.

[rkt.india]

my judgement (as mentioned in my post). Was the quickest of the bunch in zim according to me.

No. He looked quick because of his bounce and seam movement back into right handers which hurries them, but Shami was the quickest bowler there.

[rkt.india]

I think the rage is unnecessary in most cases. Suyal has played just 7 OD matches in his career. It would be rash to get him in at this stage. He picked up 0 wickets in his two Challenger Trophy games. He was bowling to the likes of Reddy, Naman Ojha, Pandey, Yuvraj Singh, Bawne, Chawla, Uthappa, Mukund, Smit Patel, Jadhav, Yusuf Pathan...none of these players other than Yuvraj are as good as the Australian ODI batting line up. If Suyal cannot take wickets against these people, what train of thought leads you to think he will do it against Australia. y!

You had not said this if you had watched the matches. I would say he was really unlucky to not pick wickets. He was one of the pick of the bowlers in that trophy. On any other day, he could have picked many wickets, especially in his first match of CT, he bowled really well. Batsmen were just not good enough to edge them and pitch was slow and not much help for bowlers. Likes of Vinay only got wickets when batsmen went after him and was carted around by even Nehra and Umesh for sixes. You see even Nehra and Umesh hit Vinay for big sixes. One of Umesh's six on him was the biggest you will ever see.

[rkt.india]

I think the rage is unnecessary in most cases. Anwar Ahmed has played 8 ODs. I don't know why people are so crazy about him. I've seen videos of him and he seems like a tall medium pacer. Surely people cannot go so crazy just over height? Aniket has a FC bowling average of 41.63, doesn't have an IPL deal and has never played domestic OD cricket. And you want him in the ODI team?! Is it just because he bowls 135kph?! Something seems to have got him into the India A team because it certainly wasn't his domestic performance. As for Pankaj Singh, who knows what he did to piss off the selectors. I think we all agree he has earned a shot. Much like Badrinath, it does not matter how well he does. It matters that he gets the opportunity!

Agree about Anwar and Aniket. They both are starters. Anwar is better than Aniket as of now. He had bowled really well in one of the one day tour games against England. They will get their chances if they improve. The list MCC gave, right now only Shukla and Suyal are India potential and they should be given A tours.

[randomGuy]

When did you see Unadkat bowl 135 to 140 k ?

In Zimbabwe?

[rkt.india]

In Zimbabwe?

There was no speed gun there.

[msb1991]

I have seen the Challengers and by far Suyal was the best bowler' date=' he beat the bat countless time and bowled very good Yorkers and simply was too pacy for those batters, Razdan and other commies who were ex players were wondering why he was not found yet.It is not rage but frustration , selectors and coach Dhoni simply missing the obvious.[/quote'] We won't have to wait long for him to achieve some prolific performances, then.

[msb1991]

Let's consider the longest version of the game to discuss this topic. Have we ever seen a pacer bowling in the 120 s become a great pace bowler in test matches ? I can't recall offhand. Yet, they have dominated 4 or 5 day games' domestic competition in almost every country. This has happened in India too. We have seen the Vinay Kumars dominating Ranji trophy but have never succeeded in tests. The 3 decent pacers India have had in tests have been either fast or fast medium. Yet Ranji trophy has had much bigger successes who have not done anything in tests. It must be that domestic batsmen often fall to low paced but otherwise good deliveries whereas international batsmen are able to play them.

But that is not the point I was making. Domestic batsmen often fall to low paced but otherwise good deliveries. However, there is nothing which says that they can play 140kph bowling better than international batsmen. A 140kph bowler has to perform well domestically if he can be a good international bowler.

I would like to see how long McKay is able to play for Australia. Somehow' date=' they end up dropping medium pacers and finger spinners, no matter how good they are, and also end up with great bowling attacks.[/quote'] Nathan Bracken? He played 116 ODIs before his knee took him out of international cricket. But whatever you're arguing against, it is not what I am saying. I'm saying that a good fast bowler should have an easy time dominating Indian domestic cricket. That's all I'm saying.

[msb1991]

You had not said this if you had watched the matches. I would say he was really unlucky to not pick wickets. He was one of the pick of the bowlers in that trophy. On any other day' date=' he could have picked many wickets, especially in his first match of CT, he bowled really well. Batsmen were just not good enough to edge them and pitch was slow and not much help for bowlers.[/quote'] Again, I reiterate my point. If he is so good (which I hope he is), then he will be dominating the wicket-takers charts in no time.

[rkt.india]

Again' date=' I reiterate my point. If he is so good (which I hope he is), then he will be dominating the wicket-takers charts in no time.[/quote'] and he has a pretty good FC record and before challenger trophy had 10 wickets in 5 one day matches, was really unlucky to not get many wickets in those two Challenger matches. Sometimes, stats do not do justice to someone's bowling and sometimes stats exaggerate the bowling like in case of Vinay in challengers who was thrashed even by Nehra and Umesh for sixes.

[express bowling]

After identifying fast men, why not give them a lot of India A matches and .zonal matches to see whether they are fit for international cricket. Suyal and Shukla are not being seen anywhere. Bizarre !

[tweaker]

Fast Rahul Shukla Ishwar Pandey fast Medium B Kumar Mohit Sharma Pankaj Singh Medium fast Rishi Dhavan Abhishek Nair Spinner Karan Sharma Shahbaz Nadeem

[rkt.india]

Fast Rahul Shukla Ishwar Pandey fast Medium B Kumar Mohit Sharma Pankaj Singh Medium fast Rishi Dhavan Abhishek Nair Spinner Karan Sharma Shahbaz Nadeem

Ishwar Pandey is not fast but fast medium.

[rkt.india]

After identifying fast men, why not give them a lot of India A matches and .zonal matches to see whether they are fit for international cricket. Suyal and Shukla are not being seen anywhere. Bizarre !

Suyal, Shukla, Pandey, Kulkarni are the uncapped players who need to be in the A setup if not in Indian team already for next 1 year.

[randomGuy]

There was no speed gun there.

Right He looked a couple of notches faster than vinay, shami and mohit. And bouncier too. He would have been in 135-140k range, no?

[express bowling]

But that is not the point I was making. Domestic batsmen often fall to low paced but otherwise good deliveries. However, there is nothing which says that they can play 140kph bowling better than international batsmen. A 140kph bowler has to perform well domestically if he can be a good international bowler. Nathan Bracken? He played 116 ODIs before his knee took him out of international cricket. But whatever you're arguing against, it is not what I am saying. I'm saying that a good fast bowler should have an easy time dominating Indian domestic cricket. That's all I'm saying.

Fast bowlers playing domestic cricket in India often face many additional challenges that they don't face in international cricket as consistently or frequently. - Really bad pitches for pacers in most matches. In international matches about 50% of the pitches are decent to good. Bounce and pace off the deck, which are two of the biggest weapons in a genuine quick's armoury, are mostly rendered impotent in domestic matches but that is not the case in a large % of international matches. - State level captains don't know how to handle genuine quicks, often from inexperience. They use quicks in really long spells, often too many spells in a day. More experienced international captains often handle quicks more effectively. - They don't get proper field placements , again often from captain's inexperience in handling genuine quicks. Generally, lack if fast bowling culture acts as a detriment. - I was also reading that the balls used in domestic cricket are different from those in international cricket. International cherries are more conducive to deck hitting bowling. These factors often negate the potency of genuine quicks in domestic cricket but are less or not present in international cricket. This sometimes lead to good fast men underperforming in domestic cricket and their potential not converting to statistics. -

[rkt.india]

Right He looked a couple of notches faster than vinay, shami and mohit. And bouncier too. He would have been in 135-140k range, no?

No Shami is easily quicker than him. He is as quick as Mohit. Vinay is slowest. He looked quicker because of the bounce and seam movement he got into the right handers of the wicket.

[randomGuy]

No Shami is easily quicker than him. He is as quick as Mohit. Vinay is slowest. He looked quicker because of the bounce and seam movement he got into the right handers of the wicket.

Shami's speed varies quite a bit. On average, I think it was unadkat, then shami then Mohit and then vinay on that tour.

[express bowling]

Suyal' date=' Shukla, Pandey, Kulkarni are the uncapped players who need to be in the A setup if not in Indian team already for next 1 year.[/quote'] Absolutely.