India's blunt spearhead

[rkt.india]

India A is fine but as I said to me he doesn't look ready for international cricket. And for all his pace in Challenger Trophy' date=' he did not pick a single wicket. Just for pace alone, he will find it difficult to move to the higher levels. The upcoming season is a great opportunity for bowlers like him, Rahul Shukla . Good haul of wickets will get them a spot in the A squad.[/quote'] Yaar. I do not think you even watched the challenger trophy match, did not get wicket does not mean, he did not bowl well. There can be days when you bowl well and still does not get wickets. He had 10 wickets in 5 one day matches before that. Same was the case there on those slow tracks. He particularly bowled well with the new ball and consistently squared up the batsmen. Vinay Kumar got 8 wickets in Challenger but it does not mean he bowled really well. As I already said even Nehra and Umesh tonked him for 4s and 6s and in that process he got their wickets. Vinay played for India A against WI A. What is the use of Vinay playing for India A when some young bowlers could their chances? What is there which we do not already know about Vinay or he is a future prospect who can improve playing A matches? I am not even favor of anyone selected directly to Indian team without him being played for India A. This is the reason guys like Suyal, Shukla, etc. need to be selected for India A ASAP. There is some potential in them. It is not just about pace but an overall package but what they lack is experience which they can get through these A matches. We know how well Shukla bowled at Jaipur and used whatever help was there for pacers against good quality batsmen.

[saneindian]

RKT and did you watch the same match as I did? Vinay Kumar bowled superbly with the new ball, matched Bhuvi trick for trick in their opening spells at times outshining Bhuvi. Cleaned up Sehwag with an indipper, got Uthappa who was in great touch, out for a low score, had a couple of catches dropped off him or flying between the slips. In the death overs, most of his wickets were 'bowled' by bowling full and straight. Got tonked for runs but took the wickets as well. He was equally good with the new ball against WI A as well. Wether he's good enough to play for India or not is a different question though. Fact remains in the chances he's got from the selectors in the India A and challenger trophy, VK has done well enough. Getting hit for a 6 by Umesh Yadav (nehra didnt hit him for 6s) doesn't change that.

[rkt.india]

RKT and did you watch the same match as I did? Vinay Kumar bowled superbly with the new ball, matched Bhuvi trick for trick in their opening spells at times outshining Bhuvi. Cleaned up Sehwag with an indipper, got Uthappa who was in great touch, out for a low score, had a couple of catches dropped off him or flying between the slips. In the death overs, most of his wickets were 'bowled' by bowling full and straight. Got tonked for runs but took the wickets as well. He was equally good with the new ball against WI A as well. Wether he's good enough to play for India or not is a different question though. Fact remains in the chances he's got from the selectors in the India A and challenger trophy, VK has done well enough. Getting hit for a 6 by Umesh Yadav (nehra didnt hit him for 6s) doesn't change that.

You are talking like getting Sehwag out is a big deal these days. The thing is most of his wickets were tailenders. You wont argue he could not trouble Zim batsmen on seaming tracks recently.

[saneindian]

RKT, two questions, while playing for India A Did VK bowl well with the new ball or not? Did he bowl full and yorkers during the death or not? A yes or no would be enough, thanks. Let me go to CI and bring out the other relevant stats for you :)

[rkt.india]

RKT, two questions, while playing for India A Did VK bowl well with the new ball or not? Did he bowl full and yorkers during the death or not? A yes or no would be enough, thanks. Let me go to CI and bring out the other relevant stats for you :)

Wasn't he dropped mid-series in Zimbabwe when was toothless on helpful tracks neither take wickets not bowl economically averaging 69. So, how Challenger is more important than those international ODIs?

[saneindian]

Because he's been picked in the ODI squad again based on those India A and Challenger matches. In fact when he was picking those wickets in Challengers, the commies did say he may have booked his slot in the ODI squad as a number of selectors were watching.

[saneindian]

VK in Challenger Trophy 1. Match 1 vs Delhi - Awana (bowled) 2. Match 2 vs India Red - Uthappa, Nadeem, Suraj and Umesh Yadav, last 2 bowled 3. Match 3 -final vs India Red- Sehwag, Awana , Suyal vs WI A: 1st OD - Bonner, Powell 2nd OD- Fletcher, Powell and Jhonson 3rd OD- Permaul T20- Powell, Permaul Not all tail enders. Done with the debate though. Hope VK is rested and Undkat gets a chance tomorrow.

[rkt.india]

Because he's been picked in the ODI squad again based on those India A and Challenger matches. In fact when he was picking those wickets in Challengers' date=' the commies did say he may have booked his slot in the ODI squad as a number of selectors were watching.[/quote'] and still 6 of 8 of his wickets were of pure tailenders who were just throwing their bats, Awana twice, Nadem, Suraj Yadav, Umesh Yadav, Suyal.

[rkt.india]

VK in Challenger Trophy 1. Match 1 vs Delhi - Awana (bowled) 2. Match 2 vs India Red - Uthappa, Nadeem, Suraj and Umesh Yadav, last 2 bowled 3. Match 3 -final vs India Red- Sehwag, Awana , Suyal vs WI A: 1st OD - Bonner, Powell 2nd OD- Fletcher, Powell and Jhonson 3rd OD- Permaul T20- Powell, Permaul Not all tail enders. Done with the debate though. Hope VK is rested and Undkat gets a chance tomorrow.

Dhawal Kulkarni was the best one day bowler against NZ A, but he is not picked. Don't know why every time they go back to Vinay.

[express bowling]

This is the problem of going by just stats in domestic cricket. Certain types of players, especially bowlers, rarely succeed in international cricket. Short pacers bowling 127 k without supreme movement is the best example. We should consider the type of bowlers we are selecting. Among the type which usually succeed in international cricket , we shoul pick the best performers. Dhawal Kulkarni would be a decent pick ... a fast medium pacer, decent height, can hit the deck, decent bounce and movement and performing well too.

[saneindian]

Dhawal is good but I am glad on these flat pitches he's not been thrown into the cauldron. Same for Ishwar Pandey and even Sami. These 3 are our brightest prospects for Test matches and should be in the test squad to SA. Would be a disastser to see them lose confidence by playing them on such treacherous pitches.

[rkt.india]

Dhawal is good but I am glad on these flat pitches he's not been thrown into the cauldron. Same for Ishwar Pandey and even Sami. These 3 are our brightest prospects for Test matches and should be in the test squad to SA. Would be a disastser to see them lose confidence by playing them on such treacherous pitches.

I dont think selectors are that wise. I can see Vinay on SA tour test team.

[express bowling]

Dhawal is good but I am glad on these flat pitches he's not been thrown into the cauldron. Same for Ishwar Pandey and even Sami. These 3 are our brightest prospects for Test matches and should be in the test squad to SA. Would be a disastser to see them lose confidence by playing them on such treacherous pitches.

How many players have we seen included in our test team without playing ODIs first ? Maybe a superlative Ranji performer like Pujara. With Dhawal, chances of that happening are low.

[saneindian]

Pathan, Chawla, Munaf, Ishant, Vijay, Mithun, Mukund - there have been examples of people coming to the test side first. Not saying The new pacers should not be tried in ODIs , all I am saying dont thrown them into it on such flat pattas. Could destroy their confidence.

[express bowling]

All I am saying is -- the selectors should consider the type of players that succeed in international cricket and then go for domestic performance among them. If someone does not fall in the type then he has to be a superlative performer to get a chance. Just potential or just performance in domestic matches ... neither are good enough by themselves but must be combined. Also, if we find pacers with pace then they should be tried in A teams instead of filling A teams with the Vinays and Pathans who we all know how they are.

[Texan]

India's blunt spearhead

India's blunt spearhead Ishant Sharma has been a disappointment in ODIs, proving ineffective with new ball and old for the majority of his six-year career "I love being the spearhead of the Indian bowling attack," Ishant Sharma had said in August. "It is a privilege for any fast bowler." After the first ODI against Australia four days ago, MS Dhoni said: "As he is part of the side for a long time now, he has to improve his death bowling." Dhoni was referring to Bhuvneshwar Kumar, but one could be forgiven for thinking the India captain had been demanding more from Ishant, the self-acknowledged "spearhead" of his attack. Bhuvneshwar has taken 25 wickets in 19 ODIs at an average of 25.76 and an economy rate of 4.15, creditable figures for someone who is primarily a new-ball swing bowler. Dhoni is within his rights to ask for improvement with the old ball from Bhuvneshwar, but it must be kept in mind that he has not completed a year in international cricket, and has been the only India seamer to go for less than run a ball in both ODIs against Australia. Ishant has been playing international cricket for more than six years. In Pune and Jaipur, he went for eight and almost eight per over for a solitary 50th-over wicket. Given the captain's expectations of an inexperienced Bhuvneshwar, you would think he would be setting much higher standards for Ishant, who should qualify as the leader of the attack by the sheer amount of time he's been around. Ishant, however, is falling short. "Unlucky Ishant" stopped being an excuse a long time ago. Few bowlers are lucky enough to play 51 Tests, and only the luckiest manage to do so averaging 38. A lot has been said in favour of Ishant the Test bowler: that he shouldn't be judged only by his numbers, that he has this rare tireless determination to keep bowling, that his commitment to training is unmatched by fellow fast bowlers in the team. These arguments, arguable at best, don't apply to limited-overs cricket. Ten overs is all a fast bowler is required to run in for in an ODI. He is expected, chiefly, to pick up wickets with the new ball and prevent the opposition from scoring big at the death. A spearhead might be reasonably expected to lead by example on both counts. Ishant has not. While bowling during the first 15 overs in 67 ODIs, he averages 45.35 for 28 wickets at an economy rate of 5.33. Neither does he get the wickets of specialist batsmen early, nor is he able to keep them quiet. In contrast, Bhuvneshwar has played his new-ball role superbly so far - taking 22 wickets in 19 innings, an average of 21.90 and economy rate of 3.85 in that period. In the last ten overs, Ishant's economy rate shoots up to 7.38. His bowling average also drops sharply to 24.22 for 31 wickets, which is more than what he manages with the new ball. This suggests that both Ishant's overall wickets tally and average are inflated by cheap dismissals of batsmen looking to have a slog at the death. "(It is) important we don't give runs with the two new balls and take wickets," Dhoni said. "It is always good to have bowlers who can bowl well at the death also. Especially the three fast bowlers should be able to bowl at the end." Ishant has seldom delivered on either count. For someone who has bowled as much as he has, in excess of 500 overs, only Elton Chigumbura has a worse economy rate. The Zimbabwean at least has his batting to fall back on. In Pune, after having gone for 45 in 6.1 overs, Ishant had James Faulkner clobbering a wide delivery straight to extra cover in the last over of Australia's innings. He stared hard at the departing No 8 batsman as if he'd earned the dismissal, and proceeded to serve two length balls, one a slower one. No 10 Clint McKay launched both over midwicket. With the new ball, he'd bowled repeatedly short and wide to Aaron Finch, despite the opener's strength square of the wicket, and had been cut for several fours. In Jaipur, the 45th over of Australia's innings, which went for 17, was a perfect example of how little control Ishant provided to a captain who has partly built his limited-overs reputation on being able to exercise it. Often criticised for his failure to bowl full, Ishant tried doing so. Three balls were full tosses, two of which went for four. Two were wides down the leg side, and he was also fortunate to concede only a single to deep point off a full and wide one. At times, he kept bowling full despite mid-on and mid-off in the circle, and Dhoni had to run up to him in frustration. In his fledgling career, Bhuvneshwar concedes 8.46 an over in the last ten overs of an ODI, and Dhoni rightly wants him to improve. But with a "spearhead" who is ineffective with the new ball and with the old, and often shows no awareness as an ODI bowler, who can Bhuvneshwar look up to?

What is striking about this article is Dhoni's criticism of Bhuvi's bowling at the death after having played only a year of cricket, but no criticism whatsoever of Ishant's continued poor bowling with new ball and old ball over the last 6 years! Favoritism at his ugliest!

[youngindia]

Just potential or just performance in domestic matches ... neither are good enough by themselves but must be combined. .

talent identification and nurture system has to be top class.people running the game has to know the game from several aspects. plain and simple. data from domestics is only relevant for that standard. whether players can scale to an international standard is a different matter altogether. its ridiculous to treat domestic data as data entry point. After all what is the logic in picking mediocre players who are never going make it. no use whatsoever.

[saneindian]

What is striking about this article is Dhoni's criticism of Bhuvi's bowling at the death after having played only a year of cricket' date=' but no criticism whatsoever of Ishant's continued poor bowling with new ball and old ball over the last 6 years! Favoritism at his ugliest![/quote'] http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013-14/content/video_audio/679383.html This was the interview. Listen from 5:00 onwards, if you listen to the entire quote, it comes out totally differently.

[Ram]

Ishant is a 'spearhead' more by default, than by merit. I would not be too harsh on the record of quicks bowling in ODI these days, especially in the subcontinent. We all how the Indian batsmen chased down 360 like it was a casual net. The game's changed now. The batsmen have discovered a new sense of fearlessness that did not exist in the 10,12, even 7-8 years ago. It is unfair to be too critical of our quicks because of this. But it has to be said that Ishant is now slowly turning into the Sreesanth of ODIs. Remember, a few years ago, Sreesanth was this strike-bowler in ODIs who was supposed to give us all the crucial breakthroughs. But he turned out to be one of most expensive frontline bowlers in the history of ODI cricket.

[express bowling]

talent identification and nurture system has to be top class.people running the game has to know the game from several aspects. plain and simple. data from domestics is only relevant for that standard. whether players can scale to an international standard is a different matter altogether. its ridiculous to treat domestic data as data entry point. After all what is the logic in picking mediocre players who are never going make it. no use whatsoever.

Agree completely. Our selectors need to identify players who have the potential to succeed at international level and then pick those who are performing among them. Ishant has potential but is not performing and Vinay performs in the domestics but has no international potential. These are the two we pick and our pace attack looks pathetic.