Sachin lucky he didn't face West Indies pace greats: Imran Khan

[Gunner]

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[TheWall]

Are you suggesting that only Pakistani bowlers ball tampered in that era? Must be nice to be so blissfully naive. I've seen pictures of Manoj Prabhakar taking his chompers to the ball. Dravid and Tendulkar have also had their brushes with controversy.

That's bcoz of some chu**** refree's and umpires who wanted some limelight..

[bones]

That's bcoz of some chu**** refree's and umpires who wanted some limelight..

The clip showing Tendulkar "cleaning the seam" shows nails digging into the ball. Referee and Umpire didn't make Tendulkar do that, he did it himself, so many people around the world know he's not a saint.

[Tailender]

Whether or not Sachin did that, does not take away from the fact that he's the greatest bat ever bar Bradman. Likewise, don't put down the legacy of other great players for indulging in activities that players from all countries engaged in...

[putrevus]

Are you suggesting that only Pakistani bowlers ball tampered in that era? Must be nice to be so blissfully naive. I've seen pictures of Manoj Prabhakar taking his chompers to the ball. Dravid and Tendulkar have also had their brushes with controversy.

I was waiting for this line of defense. Every time this happens we hear same crap from Pakistani players to fans Pointing fingers at others but fricking forget that very fact most of their records are tainted. how is showing or saying tendulkar or dravid lifted or cleaned the seam change the fact Imran Khan who mediocre for a almost a decade became world class that too on docile flat pitches in Pakistan.

[hhhhdmt]

I was waiting for this line of defense. Every time this happens we hear same crap from Pakistani players to fans Pointing fingers at others but fricking forget that very fact most of their records are tainted. how is showing or saying tendulkar or dravid lifted or cleaned the seam change the fact Imran Khan who mediocre for a almost a decade became world class that too on docile flat pitches in Pakistan.

your mindless rambling isn't going to change the fact that Imran is regarded as one of the greatest all rounders and bowlers even outside of Pakistan. the whole "mediocre" for almost a decade is rubbish. He only played about 8-9 test series before his breakthrough. He played 20 something matches, not 50-70 matches during these years.

[Tailender]

I was waiting for this line of defense. Every time this happens we hear same crap from Pakistani players to fans Pointing fingers at others but fricking forget that very fact most of their records are tainted. how is showing or saying tendulkar or dravid lifted or cleaned the seam change the fact Imran Khan who mediocre for a almost a decade became world class that too on docile flat pitches in Pakistan.

I see you have a high regard for using facts in arguments :hysterical:

[putrevus]

I see you have a high regard for using facts in arguments :hysterical:

you are welcome:dance:

[hhhhdmt]

Alot of bowlers take more than 20 tests before they really click. Imran didn't even play alot of test cricket during that time. Thats why the whole "mediocre" for nearly a decade argument is nothing short of complete and utter bull----. not to mention, Imran made changes to his actual bowling action, improved both speed and accuracy, and also vastly improved his batting. Not to mention playing in world series cricket along with several quality bowlers also helped him.

[putrevus]

your mindless rambling isn't going to change the fact that Imran is regarded as one of the greatest all rounders and bowlers even outside of Pakistan. the whole "mediocre" for almost a decade is rubbish. He only played about 8-9 test series before his breakthrough. He played 20 something matches, not 50-70 matches during these years.

So now it becomes mindless but when your fricking Imran Khan comes up with absurd theories that fricking Inzi who is not not even fit to tie Sachin's shoe laces is better match winner than Sachin, it is not mindless Now he comes up with another fricking mindless nonsense Sachin was lucky that he did not face WI bowlers. Ask him WTF does he smoke to come up with these ridiculous nonsensical theories. As long as Imran comes up with this absurd theories straight from place where sun does not shine, others also can come up with theories which are much more closer to facts about him and all other Pakistani players.

[hhhhdmt]

Imran's comments about Inzamam being comparable to Sachin were absurd. No one is denying that. Your whole "mediocre" for a nearly a decade point was absurd as well considering he only played 20 something tests during this time. As far as this comment about Sachin being "lucky" having not faced the WI pace attack of the 80's, i think it was a light hearted comment that is being blown out of proportion. He was praising Gavaskar for having played those guys in their primes. I dont think he meant to take a shot at Sachin, people are making way to big a deal out of it. Sachin has already proved that he would do better than most batsmen vs such an attack. Geez, relax.

[putrevus]

Imran's comments about Inzamam being comparable to Sachin were absurd. No one is denying that. Your whole "mediocre" for a nearly a decade point was absurd as well considering he only played 20 something tests during this time. As far as this comment about Sachin being "lucky" having not faced the WI pace attack of the 80's, i think it was a light hearted comment that is being blown out of proportion. He was praising Gavaskar for having played those guys in their primes. I dont think he meant to take a shot at Sachin, people are making way to big a deal out of it. Sachin has already proved that he would do better than most batsmen vs such an attack. Geez, relax.

I am very relaxed , it is you guys who were getting sensitive ,excited and agitated from the theories which are not far from facts. Imran becoming great player does not hide the fact that he had a very mediocre beginning and also he did not cement his place in the team right away. It also does not hide the fact he himself admitted he used coke bottle tops to alter the shape of ball and who knows where and how many times he used them. It also does not hide the fact that trundler name Chris Pringle proved that anyone can take 12 wickets in match after doctoring the ball in Pakistani pitches.

[Trichromatic]

Viv was probably luckiest player then. Played in 80s and yet didnt face them.

[hhhhdmt]

Pringle was bowling to Pakistani batsmen who can make any joe average look great. :cantstop: Besides it was just one match. :hysterical::hysterical: Your theory doesn't take into account that Imran improved practically every aspect of his game including modifying his action, improving his bowling speed and accuracy, and vastly improving his batting as well. Alot of bowlers take more than 20 tests to click. Not making an immediate impact means very little in the long run especially if you can come back and improve virtually every aspect of your game. Like i said, it was a light hearted comment that has been taken way way out of propition. Sachin is a terrefic player, he is very respected everywhere. I am sure Imran knows he would have done well vs 80s WI team.

[bones]

I am very relaxed , it is you guys who were getting sensitive ,excited and agitated from the theories which are not far from facts. Imran becoming great player does not hide the fact that he had a very mediocre beginning and also he did not cement his place in the team right away.

Actually no one else is using petty language in this thread, you are. Almost ever post of yours contains the word "fricking". Fricking this, fricking that. Yet you are are relaxed? I doubt it. What are you trying to say about his poor start to international cricket?Are you saying he's not a great because he started off badly? The truth is, it doesn't matter how you start, it matters who progress and if you can maintain a high level throughout your career. Imran had a bad level to start off with, went away worked on his game, came back a beast and maintained an unbelievable standard for an extended period of time. Imran's level at his peak was unbelivably high based on the stats. He is a great, the greatest of the great quartet of all rounders from the 80s and only silly people would deny that.

[namasteji1]

Imran Lucky he retired early, otherwise would have got clobbered even more.

[putrevus]

Actually no one else is using petty language in this thread, you are. Almost ever post of yours contains the word "fricking". Fricking this, fricking that. Yet you are are relaxed? I doubt it. What are you trying to say about his poor start to international cricket?Are you saying he's not a great because he started off badly? The truth is, it doesn't matter how you start, it matters who progress and if you can maintain a high level throughout your career. Imran had a bad level to start off with, went away worked on his game, came back a beast and maintained an unbelievable standard for an extended period of time. Imran's level at his peak was unbelivably high based on the stats. He is a great, the greatest of the great quartet of all rounders from the 80s and only silly people would deny that.

May be I went extreme , I apologize. But regarding Imran I don't think I was wrong at all. If Imran can be termed greatest of 1980s then Sachin has to be greatest of all of time it is not even a contest.

[Deleted_User_1]

I do not know why Wasim and Waqar are hailed so highly when they have cheated a lot in their careers. Same with Imran. Would they have been so successful if they did not tamper with the ball? The stories you hear from cricketers playing against them in Pak is ridiculous at best.

[Gunner]

How Chris Pringle gave the Pakistanis a taste of their own medicine.

The thorny subject of ball tampering has stalked the game for many years, but it is only in the last couple of decades that it has become something a wider audience has been aware of. Arguably, it has been going on since cricket's earliest days, but invasive TV coverage and the media's appetite for controversy has brought it to the surface. One of the most bizarre - and blatant - instances of ball tampering occurred during New Zealand's tour of Pakistan in the autumn of 1990. From the off, New Zealand expressed deep reservations about the way that the Pakistan bowlers got the ball to reverse swing, and the appearance of the ball. Most dismissed this as sour grapes as the tour had been in trouble before it started. Several leading New Zealanders opted out of making the trip, leading to Imran Khan also absenting himself after protesting at what he believed would be a "mismatch". And then when the Pakistan Cricket Board suggested appointing neutral umpires, Martin Crowe, New Zealand's captain, said that it had to be "better than having two Pakistani umpires". Unsurprisingly, the PCB did an about-turn and dropped the plan. In the opening Test at Karachi, New Zealand were twice bowled out for under 200 as Pakistan, thanks to 203 from Shoaib Mohammad, won by an innings. In the second Test at Lahore, Martin Crowe remembered that he encountered reverse-swing for the first time on his way to a second-innings hundred. "Six supposed outswingers [from Wasim Akram] suddenly became six lethal inswingers. I had never seen it before and I became curious." During the innings, Crowe dropped a delivery from Abdul Qadir at his feet and bent down to pick it up and lob it back to the bowler. "It was totally mutilated on one side with two or three deep scratches gouged out," he said. "I complained to the umpires but they did nothing." Later in the day the ball went out of shape and was changed. As it was thrown to the boundary by the umpires, Willie Watson and Mark Priest rushed to intercept it. "It bore no resemblance to a cricket ball," Crowe claimed. The pair took it back to the changing-room but, so Crowe noted, Intikhab Alam, the Pakistan manager, came in and took it and it was never seen again. Ian Taylor, the New Zealand manager, made an official complaint at the end of the match, but it was dismissed with the officials stating that the condition of the ball resulted from a rough outfield and advertising hoardings. "We accepted that Pakistan were the better team," Crowe added, "but we were not going to accept what they were doing with the ball." Chris Pringle, at the time New Zealand's opening bowler, decided to take the law into his own hands. "There was something going on," he recalled in his autobiography Save The Last Ball For Me. "And whether what I did was the right or wrong way to make the ball look as it did in the next Test, I had to try it." After another resounding defeat at Lahore, several of the New Zealanders experimented in the nets with scoring one side of an old ball with bottle tops. "With that technique, even guys like Mark Greatbatch and Martin Crowe were swinging the ball miles in the air," Pringle wrote. "We practised long and hard in the nets and were quite excited about the results we were getting with it." Crowe admitted that he ran in to bowl his normal inswingers "only to see the ball curve the other way ... I'd never bowled outswingers in my life!" On the morning of the first day of the final Test at Faisalabad, Pringle decided to put what he had learned into practice. He found an old bottle top, cut it into quarters, covered the serrated edge with tape, leaving a sharp point exposed. At the first drinks interval the umpires did not ask to look at the ball and, with Pakistan making sedate progress, Pringle started scratching the ball with the bottle top. Pakistan crashed from 35 for 0 to 102 all out. Pringle finished with his Test-best figures of 7 for 52. "Neither umpire showed any concern or took any notice in what we were doing even though, at the end of the innings, the ball was very scratched," Pringle noted. "One side was shiny but there were lots of grooves and lines and deep gouges on the other side. It was so obvious. It was ripped to shreds ... one side of the ball had been demolished. The umpires were walking across to each other and talking quite a lot. I sensed that they could tell what was going on ... but they didn't want to get involved in anything controversial." However, while the men in white remained implacable, others were wise to what was happening. Pringle recalled that as he left the stadium after taking his seven wickets on the first day, a local dignitary tapped him on the shoulder and said: "Pringle, it is fair now. Both teams are cheating." Although the umpires did not check the ball during each session, they did have it during intervals and at the close. And as the game wore on, Pringle became deliberately obvious in an attempt to get a reaction, even gouging the ball as he talked to the umpire. Still nothing was said. So eagerly was he vandalizing the ball that at one stage he cut himself on the jagged bottle top. Even the sight of a bowler with blood freely flowing from a sliced finger did not cause any disquiet as far as the officials were concerned. Pringle finished with 11 for 152 after taking 2 for 190 in the first two matches, but his efforts could not prevent New Zealand sliding to another defeat and a series whitewash. To their credit, the Pakistan side refused to be riled by the accusations. Wasim explained that: "Waqar and myself were in good nick and were too good for their batsmen, and the dry conditions were perfect for swing bowling. We felt we could bowl out any team. We had no need to tamper with the ball." And what about the bottle tops? "It's bullshit," Wasim countered. "It was simply that the New Zealanders couldn't play the moving ball. On Pakistan wickets the ball gets rough automatically on the mud and the sand." Taylor, however, added fuel to the flames when he said: "I am not sure how they did it ... whether they used fingernails or sandpaper ... I would not be surprised if they used knives." When West Indies arrived shortly after for a tour of their own, Lance Gibbs, their manager, found a letter from Taylor awaiting him in which he warned them to be on the lookout for ball tampering. An uneasy peace was maintained until the second Test at Faisalabad when Desmond Haynes, the West Indies captain, accused the Pakistan bowlers of tampering. At the same time, back in New Zealand, Warren Lees, the New Zealand coach, went public with his claims that official complaints had been made to umpires and the Pakistan Cricket Board but that no action had been taken. Nothing was proved against any of the Pakistan side, but sadly it set a precedent for accusations to be thrown at their bowlers right through to today. Pringle got away with his actions as the Code of Conduct and match referees were still some time away, and he only admitted what he had done when he retired. Could he ever get away with it now? "I wouldn't say it's impossible," he said. "You could still do it but you'd have to get the ball in a bad state anyway so there is no way of proving anything ... and be very aware of the TV cameras. You'd need to be pretty shrewd about it."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/259676.html

[Tailender]

Imran Lucky he retired early' date=' otherwise would have got clobbered even more.[/quote'] not hard if you average 22 as a bowler in test cricket