CSK Fan Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 So are you saying all our bowling woes are due to the captain and there's nothing wrong with the bowling or bowlers and the skills they bring to the table? It's a combination of both. Using bowling as a defensive strategy contributes a lot to this. Allowing part timers/spinners to let the batting settle when they were under the cosh. Why were Aaron and Shami removed after just 3 overs each? Allowed Guptill to completely settle down If your prime objective is just to play safe and save runs, this is always going to happen. Bowlers who burst into the scene usually take wickets initially. But soon they settle down as being defensive to fit in with team strategy. Look at Ashwin, or BK
saneindian Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 3 fielders on the leg during death overs means you bowl short? In the last match, with the same field they bowled lots of fuller deliveries. Even today they tried, could not land them regularly, in Shami's case, them becoming half volleys or low full tosses, can happen. Bowlers came back well IMO. That drop catch of Southee by Bhuvi could be the difference :((
The Outsider Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 3 fielders on the leg during death overs means you bowl short? In the last match, with the same field they bowled lots of fuller deliveries. Even today they tried, could not land them regularly, in Shami's case, them becoming half volleys or low full tosses, can happen. Bowlers came back well IMO. That drop catch of Southee by Bhuvi could be the difference :(( Yaar your Dhoni defense is commendable, but irrational.
Ultimate_Game Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 It's a combination of both. Using bowling as a defensive strategy contributes a lot to this. Allowing part timers/spinners to let the batting settle when they were under the cosh. Why were Aaron and Shami removed after just 3 overs each? Allowed Guptill to completely settle down If your prime objective is just to play safe and save runs, this is always going to happen. Bowlers who burst into the scene usually take wickets initially. But soon they settle down as being defensive to fit in with team strategy. Look at Ashwin, or BK Problem is more than just captain being defensive. Every game that I've watched recently our opening bowlers have conceded runs at a high run rate and failed to take early wkts. Time and time again the pattern has repeated. In fact it seems even the most basic skills like bowling on off or outside off consistently and make the batsmen take risks is too much for our bowlers. invariably you see our bowlers gift a "hit me" ball down the leg or a short and wide which asks to be put away. How can international bowlers get things so wrong that they can't bowl consistently in the channel outside off or bowl yorkers? This can't be put down to defensive captaincy or fields. You see defensive fields by other teams too but rarely does that mean a free run for bowlers for being taken apart.
rkt.india Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Bud it's one thing being taken for runs occasionally and that too after you have won the Tests 5-0 and have won the odi series 3-0. In India's case I can't recall when our bowlers managed to limit the opposing team to a below par or even a par score. You forgot CT, WI tour, ODI series against England in last January. In all these places, pacers came to the party and won us games. We never had to chase big in CT. Pacers got us initial breakthroughs. Problem is the middle overs. Because if you do not get wickets in 10-35 overs, you are going to go for runs, no matter who the bowler is. NZ today were 1 wicket down by 30 overs. Spinners only got wickets later when they attacked. They did keep runs down but did not pick wickets and that is not how you are going to win games at places like NZ, SA, and Aus. We did pick early wickets in all the matches, but not taking wickets in middle overs proves costly when DHonis bowling Jaddu, Ashwin, Raina, and Kohli. Thing is no bowler really bowls great yorkers at the death even in the world and yorker is a high risk attempt, you miss half a foot and it is a six, so bowlers restrained to bowl it especially on this ground where boundaries are so short and Shami did not get it right today. He did bowl good yorkers in last 2 matches at death.
saneindian Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 When they bowl yorkers, its the bowler's skills. When they cant land them, it's the captains fault. When they take wickets, again its the bowler's skills, when they can't , its the captain to be blamed!! I know Dhoni's is on a complete downhill as a captain, but funny to see some brilliant theories being floated.
saneindian Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Yaar your Dhoni defense is commendable' date=' but irrational.[/quote'] lol did not even mention Dhoni in the entire post!! Thora dhyaan se padhiye
The Outsider Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 lol did not even mention Dhoni in the entire post!! Thora dhyaan se padhiye Aren't you justifying field placings there? Might have comprehend it wrong.
King Tendulkar Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Reseve judgement till we batted. As this may well be super flat track with some crazy short boundaries
Ultimate_Game Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 You forgot CT, WI tour, ODI series against England in last January. In all these places, pacers came to the party and won us games. We never had to chase big in CT. Pacers got us initial breakthroughs. Problem is the middle overs. Because if you do not get wickets in 10-35 overs, you are going to go for runs, no matter who the bowler is. NZ today were 1 wicket down by 30 overs. Spinners only got wickets later when they attacked. They did keep runs down but did not pick wickets and that is not how you are going to win games at places like NZ, SA, and Aus. We did pick early wickets in all the matches, but not taking wickets in middle overs proves costly when DHonis bowling Jaddu, Ashwin, Raina, and Kohli. Thing is no bowler really bowls great yorkers at the death even in the world and yorker is a high risk attempt, you miss half a foot and it is a six, so bowlers restrained to bowl it especially on this ground where boundaries are so short and Shami did not get it right today. He did bowl good yorkers in last 2 matches at death. Yes our bowlers did well in CT especially coz the spinners were effective but I have yet to see our pacers bear the load in conditions where spinners aren't effective. Whenever spinners haven't been effective or conditions haven't suited spinners our bowling ends up conceding a huge total. Saw it in SA and seeing it in NZ. In Aus and NZ pitches spinners are unlikely to get much assistance from pitches and that's what worries me, i.e. in conditions where pacers need to show up, they don't.
Ultimate_Game Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Reseve judgement till we batted. As this may well be super flat track with some crazy short boundaries It's not based on a one off game but plenty of games in the recent past.
King Tendulkar Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 It's not based on a one off game but plenty of games in the recent past. Well yes. But this may bizzarley be good effort today.:giggle:
rkt.india Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Yes our bowlers did well in CT especially coz the spinners were effective but I have yet to see our pacers bear the load in conditions where spinners aren't effective. Whenever spinners haven't been effective or conditions haven't suited spinners our bowling ends up conceding a huge total. Saw it in SA and seeing it in NZ. In Aus and NZ pitches spinners are unlikely to get much assistance from pitches and that's what worries me' date=' i.e. in conditions where pacers need to show up, they don't.[/quote'] Bhai when you are bowling spinners from 11-35 overs, how are pacers going to be effective. Pacers are there just to be slaughtered in the end when opposition has 8-9 wickets in hand and just throws their bat at every ball. In CT, it was pacers who got early wickets and spinners did the job in middle overs by taking wickets as well, but here spinners bowled in middle overs but did not take wickets then this is what is going to happen.
saneindian Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Aren't you justifying field placings there? Might have comprehend it wrong. Nopes. I meant with the similar field setting, BK and Shami bowled a number of fuller deliveries in the last couple of games.
The Outsider Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Nopes. I meant with the similar field setting' date=' BK and Shami bowled a number of fuller deliveries in the last couple of games.[/quote'] Got it. Misunderstood and thought you were implying bowlers were not implementing Dhoni'sgenius plans.
jusarrived Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 All three matches where played on 300 par wickets.
devla Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 NZ bowlers will show how length bowling can contain on this pitch.
devla Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Dhoni is losing it. He is too cool to know when he is wrong.
King Tendulkar Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Even indian grounds more challenging then this. Kids boundaries 375 is par here
Ultimate_Game Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Even indian grounds more challenging then this. Kids boundaries 375 is par here :hysterical: NZ bowlers are showing how to bowl on this pitch. Our bowling is cr@p and goes for 300+ on any pitch and anywhere in the world.
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