All time Asian test XI

[Muloghonto]

Ganguly was an underachiever in test cricket. With the start he had (averaged almost 50 in the 1990s)' date=' he should have ended his career with an average of 45+. His only real weakness was express fast bowling.[/quote'] True, but he was the captain. Ever since cricket went huge in India ( sometime in the mid 80s), cricket captain of India is a high stress & time consuming job. It requires spending countless hours massaging a million egos - players, selectors,etc, giving countless hours to the media and facing greater scrutiny than before. Its no wonder that almost all Indian captains have had poorer records when at the helm than not. It may just be a facet of time. Perhaps Ganguly didnt have enough time to iron out the chinks in his game. I get that feeling because once ganguly was not the captain, his performance improved significantly, even though he was older and over the hill by then Its not like Ganguly had a genuine weakness against express fast bowling. He could smash even the likes of Donald if they pitched it up on the offside. Ganguly was also an efficient ducker of the short ones. What he couldn't do well is pull and thus, cramming the legside with fielders (something you can do in tests) and bowling balls not intending to hit him but cramp him for room on the body worked to an extent. Its not like Gayle who cannot face left arm swing bowlers at all or Raina who cannot take bouncers to the body at all so much so that he premeditates a lot of his shots type of weakness. His weakness was pretty specific, so i wouldn't call it weakness to fast bowling.

[Muloghonto]

People can't be serious picking Anwar over Sehwag. First of all if the conditions favored batting, Sehwag was a monster, one of the all time best. You can't ignore that. Secondly compare Anwar and Sehwag with the same amount of matches. Sehwag was not always such a poor player overseas. There is no way Anwar is ahead of Sehwag. Secondly I have seen a number of people picking Hanif Mohammad as an opener. His stats are not good enough as an opener. Zaheer Abbas was also not good enough overseas (except England) to get a spot over the likes of Miandad. Dhoni is a terrible batsman and an average keeper. He is poor against swing bowling, both batting and keeping. Sanga may not be the best of keepers but he will get the job done. I would play Sanga as a keeper. My XI 1. Gavaskar 2. Sehwag 3. Dravid (VC) 4. Tendulkar 5. Miandad 6. Sangakara (wk) 7. Imran Khan © 8. Kapil/Kumble (depending on the conditions ) 9. Wasim 10. Waqar 11. Murali PS. Ignoring match fixing.

There is no way Sanga is a better keeper than Dhoni and there is no way Dhoni is a terrible keeper. He is not stellar against fast bowlers but he isnt bad either and its not like he's had a ton of chances to prove himself against fast bowlers. But Dhoni is absolutely top notch against spinners and I'd put his keeping to spinners at Kiri-Mongia level, which is to say, absolute top class. I do not like the idea of a static XI because once you start talking about great players, conditions dictate the composition to a large extent. On overseas pitches: Sehwag Gavaskar Dravid Tendulkar Miandad Sangakkara Imran Khan (capt.) Kirmani(wkt) Wasim Akram Waqar Younis Muttiah Muralitharan On Indian/Subcontinent: Sehwag Gavaskar Dravid Tendulkar Jayawardene Dhoni (wkt) Imran Khan Wasim Akram Anil Kumble Bishen Bedi Muttiah Muralitharan

[thongale]

Saqlain > Bishan Bedi

[Muloghonto]

Saqlain > Bishan Bedi

Lol. No, not even close. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[thongale]

Lol, Other than for his return series Saqlain was a beast anywhere in the world. SR of 68 vs 80, averges less than 50 in every country, and out of the ones he average 35+, Bedi has not played in two of them. Bedi Averahed 75 and 36 against two best sides in playing spin of the era while Saqlain averages 28 (Ind) and 34 (Aus) against them. BEtter away average of 31 vs 34 for Saqlain. Lol, not even close.

[sillymidoff]

bedi wasnt even the best spinner of the so called spin quartet of india.

[FischerTal]

bedi wasnt even the best spinner of the so called spin quartet of india.

everyone calls them a spin quartet except for whiny lungans

[Muloghonto]

Lol, Other than for his return series Saqlain was a beast anywhere in the world. SR of 68 vs 80, averges less than 50 in every country, and out of the ones he average 35+, Bedi has not played in two of them. Bedi Averahed 75 and 36 against two best sides in playing spin of the era while Saqlain averages 28 (Ind) and 34 (Aus) against them. BEtter away average of 31 vs 34 for Saqlain. Lol, not even close.

Saqlain was found out 6 years after his start, bedi lasted 15 yrs. As I said, its not even close. Comparing saqlain to bedi is like comparing kambli to lara Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[Muloghonto]

bedi wasnt even the best spinner of the so called spin quartet of india.

You are too much of a noob to understand the importance of a balanced attack. Its better to have a leggie and an offie who is slightly worse than two leggies. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[sillymidoff]

if people are going to pick dhoni, then u might as well pick prassana jayawardene. dhoni is not in the same stratosphere as a keeper and pj only averages 3 or 4 runs less. a no brainer imo.

[thongale]

Saqlain was found out 6 years after his start, bedi lasted 15 yrs. As I said, its not even close. Comparing saqlain to bedi is like comparing kambli to lara Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

BEdi took 266 wickts, Saqlain 206. The career ended just becase of a serious knee injury, not because he was found out. Better than Harbhajan, better than Bedi, as good as Kumble IMO.

[thongale]

You are too much of a noob to understand the importance of a balanced attack. Its better to have a leggie and an offie who is slightly worse than two leggies. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

What is needed to pick a spinner who spins a stock delivery one way, and the complementing one to spin the stock ball in the different direction. Or otherwise to have a wrist spinner and a finger spinner. But if the spinners are different to eaach other no problem id they are of similar kind. For example O'Riely and Grimmet, both being leggies formed one of the most formidable spin attacks in the test history. Hence I have no problem haveing Saqlain and Murali. Former is a finger spinner, who gives it a rip and bowls at a quicker pace while Murali is a wrist spinner who spins it a mile with flight. Of course both bowl the doosras. Would have been an extremely potent attack. Having said that, If two spinners are really needed, my pick would be Murali + Chandra the first pick, Murali + Kumble the second, murali + Saqlain the theird and then Bedi.

[Muloghonto]

BEdi took 266 wickts' date=' Saqlain 206. The career ended just becase of a serious knee injury, not because he was found out. Better than Harbhajan, better than Bedi, as good as Kumble IMO.[/quote'] Saqlain got found out because of his over-reliance on the doosra. he only had 4 good years, after that it was all downhill for him. He also played FC cricket for 4 years after his drop, so he was dropped due to form, not injury. He was not better than Bedi or Harbhajan in tests. Bedi, like the spin quartet, bowled without a capable fast bowler in the team, so their numbers suffered, as any spinners would if they were routinely bowling with a 5-6 over old ball. Regardless, bedi and saqlain are not in competetition in my lineup. If you look closely, i picked one leg spinner, one off spinner and one slow left arm orthodox spinner. This is your ultimate balanced spin attack, as it covers all the angles and pitch locations. Also, Bedi was a genius of flight. With Murali, you have a spinner who can turn it a mile on any surface, with Kumble you have an accuracy expert who is utterly unplayable on dusty and crumbly pitches and with Bedi you take the pitch out of the equation becuase of his mastery of flight. Saqlain simply does not offer the required variation to oust Bedi from the lineup when three spinners are required. He is in competition with Murali for that spot and after Murali, the next one in an all-subcontinental XI would be Prasanna, followed by Harbhajan and then Saqlain.

[Muloghonto]

What is needed to pick a spinner who spins a stock delivery one way, and the complementing one to spin the stock ball in the different direction. Or otherwise to have a wrist spinner and a finger spinner. But if the spinners are different to eaach other no problem id they are of similar kind. For example O'Riely and Grimmet, both being leggies formed one of the most formidable spin attacks in the test history. Hence I have no problem haveing Saqlain and Murali. Former is a finger spinner, who gives it a rip and bowls at a quicker pace while Murali is a wrist spinner who spins it a mile with flight. Of course both bowl the doosras. Would have been an extremely potent attack. Having said that, If two spinners are really needed, my pick would be Murali + Chandra the first pick, Murali + Kumble the second, murali + Saqlain the theird and then Bedi.

The need is to cover all angles of the pitch, exploit all the footmarks. a SLA spinner exploits a different part of the pitch than an offie because a SLA bowls from the other side of the wicket as default. As for O'Reiley and Grimmett forming a partnership, that was possible because even though they were leggies, they were very different from each other. O'Reiley was a top spin line and length expert in the Kumble mould, Grimmett was a big turner of the ball in the Warne mould. Also, there is no way Saqlain comes ahead of Bedi, Prasanna, Doshi or the paki spinner from the 80s i forget the name of...

[thongale]

The need is to cover all angles of the pitch, exploit all the footmarks. a SLA spinner exploits a different part of the pitch than an offie because a SLA bowls from the other side of the wicket as default. As for O'Reiley and Grimmett forming a partnership, that was possible because even though they were leggies, they were very different from each other. O'Reiley was a top spin line and length expert in the Kumble mould, Grimmett was a big turner of the ball in the Warne mould.

So you are agreeing with I am saying. There's no need of fixed combinations.

Also, there is no way Saqlain comes ahead of Bedi, Prasanna, Doshi or the paki spinner from the 80s i forget the name of...

You mean Qadir? Qadir is an overrated spinner in tests, but was a bloody good one in ODIs, better than any Indian spinner to date. But you have failed to say why Indian spinners were better than Saqlain. I agree with Erapalli Prasanna's case, as he was a magician with the ball and closest to the mystery spinner that India managed to produce. Seeing Dilip Doshi's name close to Saqlain made me chuckle. Even SL's DS de Silva was regarded a better spinner than Doshi. I stand my ground that Saqlain > Bedi. This is classic love of the past and overrating by the cricket writers as that happened with Bradman taking plce here. Saqlain bowled to best players of spin in cricketing history and manhandled them, only Mendis managed to beat him, but he was one series wonder. Saqlain popularized a lost art of doosra and made finger spinners gallop past wrist spinners in wicket taking abilities. (Before Saqlain there are reports that Prasanna bowling a delivery that cut away from the right hander, and Jayananda Warnaweera cleaning up Kambli and Gatting with balls went the other way). I see no objective reasons whyBedi was better than Saqlain other than for a pile of cricket writing making him to look like the God of spin bowling. And I don;t even need to comment about their ODI skills.

[Muloghonto]

So you are agreeing with I am saying. There's no need of fixed combinations.

No, but except for Gupte, who I've not seen, there hasn't been a classically huge turner of the ball legspinner from the subcontinent of noted quality, so i see a 3 spin combo for the subcontinent being an offie-leggie-sla option.

You mean Qadir? Qadir is an overrated spinner in tests, but was a bloody good one in ODIs, better than any Indian spinner to date. But you have failed to say why Indian spinners were better than Saqlain. I agree with Erapalli Prasanna's case, as he was a magician with the ball and closest to the mystery spinner that India managed to produce. Seeing Dilip Doshi's name close to Saqlain made me chuckle. Even SL's DS de Silva was regarded a better spinner than Doshi. I stand my ground that Saqlain > Bedi. This is classic love of the past and overrating by the cricket writers as that happened with Bradman taking plce here. Saqlain bowled to best players of spin in cricketing history and manhandled them, only Mendis managed to beat him, but he was one series wonder. Saqlain popularized a lost art of doosra and made finger spinners gallop past wrist spinners in wicket taking abilities. (Before Saqlain there are reports that Prasanna bowling a delivery that cut away from the right hander, and Jayananda Warnaweera cleaning up Kambli and Gatting with balls went the other way). I see no objective reasons whyBedi was better than Saqlain other than for a pile of cricket writing making him to look like the God of spin bowling. And I don;t even need to comment about their ODI skills.

This is not classic love for the past, I've seen the spin quartet bowl. Saqlain didn't exactly set the scene on fire against the best team either- he had a good 3 test sequence against us on raging turners we designed to maximize Kumble's striking ability and minimize the formidable pace trio Pakistan had at that time. But beyond that, he was an excellent spinner, not a great one. Having seen them, I'd say Bedi was easily better than Saqlain. For one, no one, except maybe Prasanna, was better than Bedi at flight and loop. Not even Murali or Warne. He had pin-point accuracy, an extremely effective doosra (which is what an arm ball is for sla bowlers) and most importantly, was not a 3-4 season wonder who deteriorated steadily after. The thing about the spin quartet is, their numbers are far worse than they should be, because the spin quartet operated with literally zero pace support. Kapil wasnt around for most of the spin quartet's careers ( they all ended their career in 78-79, Kapil came around in 78 IIRC) and they literally had the likes of Gavaskar or Chetan Sharma open the bowling, thats how bad our pace bowling stock was, then 4-6 overs later, the spinners came on. It is extremely hard for spinners to spin or flight the new ball and which is why seeing spinners operate in test cricket inside the first 15 overs is very rare. Had they even gotten a Sharfaraz Nawaz/Venky Prasad level support, their numbers would've been better, simply due to the fact that they wouldn't been bowling in the first 10 overs routinely. Doshi is a McGill case for India - not absolute top notch of his category (like Bedi was, he still is considered the best slow left arm orthodox spinner ever in test cricket) but definitely good enough to get 200+ wickets at a 30-ish average over a regular career. I'd take him over saqlain because i think a worldclass slow left arm bowling with the best offspinner ever is a better combo than a worldclass offspinner bowling with the greatest offspinner ever. PS: The Indian team of the 90s-mid 2000s was ONE of the best set of players to play spinners. FYI i think the pre-war era Aussie-English cricketers, particularly in the 1910s-1940s period, were as great, if not greater players of spin, because spin was common back then and facing spin on 5th day uncovered & unrolled pitches is much, much harder than facing spinners on rolled and covered pitches. What i do think the pre-war era players were weak against, is facing genuine hostile pace ala the WI quartet pace-life-fire. I'd also say that the combination of Zaheer Abbass, Miandad, Mushtaq Mohammed and Asif Iqbal is one of the greatest middle order against spinners ever fielded, easily in my top 5 to take the field.Getting destroyed by them near the end of their careers does diminish them a bit but it definitely does not take away from the fact that they played some of the best batters ever against spin near the tail end of their long careers and lost the duel.

[Marut]

Saqlain > Bishan Bedi

Agree here, Bedi was not even the best among the four bowlers. My personal rating would be Chandra>Prasanna>Bedi>Venkat. Chandra would be ahead of Saqi, and Prasanna would be in the league of Saqlain, IMO. Both were very capable bowlers in a team that did not have enough fast bowlers to take the shine off the ball.

[Muloghonto]

Agree here, Bedi was not even the best among the four bowlers. My personal rating would be Chandra>Prasanna>Bedi>Venkat. Chandra would be ahead of Saqi, and Prasanna would be in the league of Saqlain, IMO. Both were very capable bowlers in a team that did not have enough fast bowlers to take the shine off the ball.

Saqqi was a very good spinner but way too overrated if you think he cracks a hall-of-fame XI of any sort- even a Paki one. Saqqi was very successful in ODIs but as far as tests go, he was good but not great. Bedi, Chandra, Prasanna, Kumble, Harbhajan, Mushie, etc were much better. With saqlain, the inescapable fact is, he was good for 4-5 years, then declined significantly as he was found out and in his own admission, over-reliant on his doosra, so much so that it was easy for the batsmen to pick it after a few years. That is not an ATG player, that is simply an Ajantha Mendis who lasted 4-5 years before being found out instead of 1 year.

[mancalledsting]

Gavaskar 

Sehwag

Dravid

Tendulkar 

Miandad

Sangakarra (wk)

Imran (captain)

Wasim

Waqar

Shoaib 

Muralitharan

[Texan]

If it should consider all eras, then one should probably pick Fazal Mahmood over Shoaib. Also, team seems thin on spin (only one spinner in OP). I would pick Kumble for Waqar.