sachin34357 Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=474711335991924 Subramanian Swamy of Bharatiya Janata Party
DomainK Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Is this a surprise to anyone? Sad, but certainly not surprising.
CSK Fan Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Sad that this is the only viable alternate party to congress at the moment. From frying pan to fire
bulbul Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Wow...how fast people throw judgement,hope you guys do same for other extremes as well :winky:
Detonator Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Why so insecure?? Most Indian muslims are so much tightly united that they want to unite with pakistanis. They also have con party for support.
CSK Fan Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Wow...how fast people throw judgement' date='hope you guys do same for other extremes as well :winky:[/quote'] Isn't that what I meant as an equally bad alternative? Do keep in mind, not many nations have suffered because they gave extra rights to minority. US has given rights to blacks, jews, gays. However whenever majority have ganged against minorities, there have been very small term gains followed by complete anarchy. Nazis and current Pakistan are prime examples
Precambrian Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Isn't that what I meant as an equally bad alternative? Do keep in mind, not many nations have suffered because they gave extra rights to minority. US has given rights to blacks, jews, gays. However whenever majority have ganged against minorities, there have been very small term gains followed by complete anarchy. Nazis and current Pakistan are prime examples care to elaborate what these "extra" rights are?
South_Paw Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Isn't that what I meant as an equally bad alternative? Do keep in mind, not many nations have suffered because they gave extra rights to minority. US has given rights to blacks, jews, gays. However whenever majority have ganged against minorities, there have been very small term gains followed by complete anarchy. Nazis and current Pakistan are prime examples Those Nations have only ensured that minorities get equal rights as majorities whereas in India con party has successfully made the majorities as sub-standard citizens. The only reason for the thriving of Hindus is their numbers. But guess that con party would devise a plan for bringing down that numbers too in the name of empowering minorities. Look we all know one thing. BJP will just ensure that minorities are given what they need. Everyone who show off as if they are scared that BJP will massacre minorities is just a bogus. No party ever has the guts to do that even if they internally desire that. Definitely not BJP after the 2002 incident. But on the other hand congress will definitely do all sort of nonsense just to appease the minorities in the expense of majorities' welfare. opportunities, safety and lives. To put it simply, BJP is not anti minority. But Congress is definitely anti majority. As we all know they are the disgusting real communal party.
JaiRamesh2 Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Isn't that what I meant as an equally bad alternative? Do keep in mind, not many nations have suffered because they gave extra rights to minority. US has given rights to blacks, jews, gays. However whenever majority have ganged against minorities, there have been very small term gains followed by complete anarchy. Nazis and current Pakistan are prime examples :hmmm: I don't think you understand what the US civil rights movement stood for. The US or West don't grant extra rights to minorities in relation to the majorities. They believe in equal opportunities. They don't have quota systems or their leaders blurring around 'muslims have first right on our natural resources.' And besides when were muslims of India (or sub continent) subject to the horrors of slavery, genocide, mass religious prosecution?? Like the African Americans in US or Jews in Europe?
CG Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Those Nations have only ensured that minorities get equal rights as majorities whereas in India con party has successfully made the majorities as sub-standard citizens. The only reason for the thriving of Hindus is their numbers. But guess that con party would devise a plan for bringing down that numbers too in the name of empowering minorities. Look we all know one thing. BJP will just ensure that minorities are given what they need. Everyone who show off as if they are scared that BJP will massacre minorities is just a bogus. No party ever has the guts to do that even if they internally desire that. Definitely not BJP after the 2002 incident. But on the other hand congress will definitely do all sort of nonsense just to appease the minorities in the expense of majorities' welfare. opportunities, safety and lives. To put it simply, BJP is not anti minority. But Congress is definitely anti majority. As we all know they are the disgusting real communal party. True quota system is killing india.Its all right for first generation but their sons who equal and even better oppurtunity get an undue advantage.their is quota system in promotion too.Its like reverse discrimination nowadays.Sadly every party will only try to increase the quota.
Crookbond Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Wow...how fast people throw judgement' date='hope you guys do same for other extremes as well :winky:[/quote'] Personally, I as much loathe an Akbarrudin Owaisi or the "Burn-A-Koran" Christian Pastor/Priest in the US as I do for a Praveen Togadia. I as much hate the burning of the Kar Sevaks as much as I do of the people who died post to it. I as much hate the people who killed the Sikhs during the 1984 pogram as the Muslims which were killed during the 1992. The value of a human life isn't associated/equated to religion. Even feeling proud (no matter it was trolling with those misplaced smileys) doesn't absolve you of guilt. Do unto others as you expect to do it yourself.
CSK Fan Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Those Nations have only ensured that minorities get equal rights as majorities whereas in India con party has successfully made the majorities as sub-standard citizens. The only reason for the thriving of Hindus is their numbers. But guess that con party would devise a plan for bringing down that numbers too in the name of empowering minorities. . Exactly this kind of false propaganda was used to rally the Nazis against jews. Exactly how are the hindus sun standard or what if any, problems do they face? :hmmm: I don't think you understand what the US civil rights movement stood for. The US or West don't grant extra rights to minorities in relation to the majorities. They believe in equal opportunities. They don't have quota systems or their leaders blurring around 'muslims have first right on our natural resources.' And besides when were muslims of India (or sub continent) subject to the horrors of slavery, genocide, mass religious prosecution?? Like the African Americans in US or Jews in Europe? Please read up the 'Affirmative action' clauses present in government agencies and even private firms in the US. Or the tax benefits a minority owned institution gets. This includes African Americans, Red Indians, women or physically handicapped people BTW, what extra benefits do muslims of India get legally in India? As I said, these kind of false information and victim mentality of the majority was exactly what led to the holocaust and even honourable men contributed to the killing of a million people. History looks back and spits at them. I see Hindus only growing and flourishing in India with their representatives in every walk of life. If today's youth doesn't want to be religious, you cannot do much about it. Only a few NRIs living overseas have this itch about militant hinduism and rights of hindus, assuming much by reading right wing papers and dreaming away in the West
JaiRamesh2 Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Exactly this kind of false propaganda was used to rally the Nazis against jews. Exactly how are the hindus sun standard or what if any, problems do they face? Please read up the 'Affirmative action' clauses present in government agencies and even private firms in the US. Or the tax benefits a minority owned institution gets. This includes African Americans, Red Indians, women or physically handicapped people BTW, what extra benefits do muslims of India get legally in India? As I said, these kind of false information and victim mentality of the majority was exactly what led to the holocaust and even honourable men contributed to the killing of a million people. History looks back and spits at them. I see Hindus only growing and flourishing in India with their representatives in every walk of life. If today's youth doesn't want to be religious, you cannot do much about it. Only a few NRIs living overseas have this itch about militant hinduism and rights of hindus, assuming much by reading right wing papers and dreaming away in the West Again you are making casual remarks, Affirmative action in US = equal opportunities for all regardless of race, religion etc. It doesn't mean quotas based on religion and caste.
bulbul Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 DM, plz do not start about guilt.Whenever such kind of threads started we get typical response from certain posters about equal rights? Who ruled India for around 60 years?can't you see who created this situation? Who stopped certain communities not realizing they are used as votebanks? I guess answer to these kind of threads is to search google and find comments from certain community supporters and create such threads.
bulbul Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Forgot to add....open thread and run,specialists come and defend thread (place for Wrong placed smiley)
DomainK Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Whats a lot sadder is the fact that so many people are eagerly supporting the communal propaganda so openly!!
Crookbond Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 DM' date=' [b']plz do not start about guilt.Whenever such kind of threads started we get typical response from certain posters about equal rights? Who ruled India for around 60 years?can't you see who created this situation? Who stopped certain communities not realizing they are used as votebanks? I guess answer to these kind of threads is to search google and find comments from certain community supporters and create such threads. Where the F did I speak about guilt? At least, read what I wrote and read the quoted post you made.
FischerTal Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 what a tool. the funny thing is his own daughter married a muslim :facepalm:
Muloghonto Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Exactly this kind of false propaganda was used to rally the Nazis against jews. Exactly how are the hindus sun standard or what if any' date=' problems do they face? [/quote'] Err, sorry you are off the mark here. Nazis did spout false propaganda because there was nothing in the German constitution or rights that gave the Jews any sort of unique or previledged position. In the case of Indian constitution, it is absolutely clear, without a shadow of doubt, that Muslims are given a unique position and arguably, a priviledged position. This supposition can be factually substantiated: The Indian constitution makes Muslim laws of inheretence and muslim-to-muslim relations, based on Muslim theological beleifs. A Hindu to hindu interaction is not subject to hindu theological concept overriding legal consensus established by the laws of the land. This establishes the case of unique position afforded to a minority in modern India that the Weimacht Republic did not make an exception to. Thus, while Hitler's assessment that Jews were 'unique' in Germany is false, it establishes the fact that Muslims are unique. Now for the advantageous part: The only muslim majority government entity in the largest sub-federal entity (ie, one step short of the national power structure) has its lands exclusively protected from rest of Indian citizens from purchase. Further, property laws between Muslims passing in the way they do poses an inherent advantage to the muslim communities in coalescing wealth at an unfair advantage to others. It is not about whether the muslim landowner has the RIGHT to sell to muslims only, should he/she wish ( which I am all for. Its your land, sell it to whichever personal entity you like that is legally and financially able to purchase). It is about whether my ability to interact legally with the muslim seller is at an equal footing with that of a muslim buyer. It is not, constitutionally speaking. So in the process, i hope I have demonstrated how your comparisons of BJP-muslim position is significantly different from that of the Nazi party of 30s. I certainly agree with the point that the BJP is barking up the wrong tree at trying to fundamentalise hindu youths. TBH, BJP has correctly identified the problem: A significant minority ( 17% of the whole nation, approaching 40-50% majority over something like 10-15% of Indian landmass) that has a significantly strong religious bias and also enjoys certain legal advantages according to the constitution. Their numbers are growing at a faster rate, due to sheer reproduction value and miniscule amounts being added to their numbers due to conversion zeal of the overall muslim population ( miniscule at a lower rate but a significant numeric accretion over the years). The majority on the other hand, while ritualistic and held together by certain cultural and religious values that are part of their value system & practices, lack a centrally binding core set of tenets that will bind them beyond all others, atleast on the sheer rate of numbers. This, over the long term, poses a threat to the majority from a growing minority, simply in terms of doctrinal & religious challenge. The minority subset may not necessarily supplant the majority simply due to these factors. They may infact, never become the majority ( again, assuming only the factors outlined above). But what is certain, is that they will get to a more advantageous position than they are currently, due to the accretion of all benefits, due to their legal uniqueness and religious growth-rate, over the decades to follow. This being the assessment, BJP has, unfortunately, botched the prescription. That should not be taken as a blatant diss, but clear assessment of it. It is neither rare, nor dismissive of their considerable skills to point out that many a party & government entity has failed to prescribe a solution for society's long-term needs. The reason BJP's prescription is flawed, is because what BJP has deviced as its broad-reaching agenda to prevent a growing minority power , is a focus on nationalism (as the unique 'unbreakable bond' counter to islamic 'unbreakable bond' position), a homogenized & fundamental commonality of religious zeal being promoted amongst hindus, to serve both as a 'secondary unbreakable bond counter of Islam' & produce its own zealots that will ensure its survival through the ages, while striving to get rid of the 'special constitutional clauses' enjoyed by the minority in this case. The last point, is the only one where Dr.BJP has hit the right nerve. But unfortunately, it is still only the least of the governing principles in this long term growth rate influence to society. The two main components are their greater growth rate and their fundamental adherence to the intra-muslim stuctures at a greater rate than the competition leading to a greater rate of growth in influence. Now, what is the solution, i don't profess to know. Atleast not one that would satisfy the goal of this minority influence not rising to disproportionate levels- both in terms of influence and numeric growth of the minorities and a concurrent morally acceptable solution that would fundamentally jive with most of the majority and many of the minorities. But what I do know, is that trying to 'out-islam Islam', which seems to be the accretion of BJP actions & efforts, is clearly not going to work. It needs to be recognized for what it is: the single most successful propagation of a core tenet of values and lifestyles proclaimed as mandatory under authority of God without an indisputable proof of Godly authority attached to it. While one can point out the propagation of the sum total of Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. in East and South East Asia ( as well as Central Asia for over a millenia) as successful, it does not share as great success as Islam does/did and it is not the same category of 'mandatory values and core tenets that is rigidly enforced'. Trying to out-zeal Islam, out-'unifiy' Islam on the 'religious basis' is doomed to fail, its like a Federer backhand to Rafa's forehand matchup: its matching up your weakest weapon ( common Hindu zeal) to your opposition's greatest asset (long term Islamic zeal & uniformity). Its not a good idea and a low probability success rate scenario at its best. They've had a stunning rate of success against ideas that rely on 'mandatory values and core tenets rigidly enforced on divine authority' and this is evident in Islam's ultimate success in prevailing on areas that were historically Christian dominated or were present in significant numbers, once islam was present in significant political, military or social power.( practically entire Northern Africa, Egypt, Levant, Turkey, Northern Iraq, Central Asia)
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