Modi Sarkar Social Issues Tracker Thread (Ache din aane wale hain)

[Raghav_12]

Anyone has any idea about whats happening regarding Vadra? Modi talked so much about him during the campaign....any action till now? Any CBI inquiry? Any court case against him by the Govt? Any inquiry by the Haryana or Rajasthan Govts (both BJP now)?

I would also like to know what is happening against NCP's reign of corruption. Last I know, Modi was seen enjoying hospitalities of Pawar.

[dial_100]

The thing that surprised me was that the website was strangely functional and clean. Very impressed!

True that. Even the customer service was prompt and said that approval will be easy to obtain.

[zen]

Farmer suicides and Environmental degradation are two issues that can be remedied over a generation. But what is your prognosis of the over-population problem?

Btw, I have used the "farmer" as a representative of the common man in India. There are people in other professions as well that struggle to make two ends meet As for over-population, the problem needs to be solved by taking a strategic approach. For example - let's assume that 2/3rd of Ind's population a) is poor and b) lives in villages. These two factors would further show that poor people usually do labor intensive work, and in villages too most of the work is labor intensive. What do families that are poor and/or do labor intensive work think? They probably think about adding more manpower, and ofc more children could result in to better support during their retirement .... Now how do you add more manpower? (I guess there is no need to go into this) One way to address this issue is by government undertaking a massive family planning and education program. Additionally, laws such as 1 child per 1 male (family, etc.) can be introduced so if a guy already has a kid, he cannot have another child even if he remarries. There should be severe penalties in violation of such laws, may be including imprisonment so people understand the seriousness of the issue :dontknow: Those needing additional manpower could be helped by providing equipment at subsidized cost or even free (technology a savior) Proper retirement saving and financial planning programs can be made available to the poor so they don't have to worry about having to work in their old age or think that by having more children, they can get better support in their old age When the size of a family increases and there is not enough work in the area or the quality of life is not high, what happens? People migrate. Proper infrastructure and opportunities need to be created in the villages. Urban planning is ofc another key issue If you want to talk about extremely extreme measures (and an example of where technology could be a boon), watch the scene in the 1993 movie "Demolition Man" on how technology was used to bring Stallone and Sandra together :P In short, there are various variables which need to be addressed by the government by designing and implementing a comprehensive strategy. Failure to do so could be catastrophic for Ind

[Precambrian]

One way to address this issue is by government undertaking a massive family planning and education program. Additionally, laws such as 1 child per 1 male (family, etc.) can be introduced so if a guy already has a kid, he cannot have another child even if he remarries. There should be severe penalties in violation of such laws, may be including imprisonment so people understand the seriousness of the issue :dontknow:

:hysterical::hysterical: In effect go back to the dark days of Sanjay Gandhi - induced sterlization etc. We struggle to get a money bill passed in parliament, and you want to make one-family-one child rule (with imprisonment attached in case of non compliance) :hysterical: Nobody is expecting even the uniform civil conduct to be possible despite Modi govt's huge majority in LS. I understand your passion, and your intention, but you advocated a totally impractical one. Better one would've been to ship half of our population to the moon and build a base for them there. There is no quick fix here. We need our people to rise on their own - which is definitely happening - and work on a collective to address this. The next 20-30 yrs are going to be extra critical - with our nation having the world's largest working population, but a massive cut in the next generation, or the generation after that, will mean after say 50-60 yrs, we will be living with the highest elderly population with the active working population being half of it (assuming implementation of your mandatory 2:1 policy) - unless you argue for compulsory euthanasia for present generation when they turn 60-70?:((

[Precambrian]

Proper retirement saving and financial planning programs can be made available to the poor so they don't have to worry about having to work in their old age or think that by having more children, they can get better support in their old age Ind

30% of the population is struggling to get a square meal every day. Please enlighten what retirement saving and financial planning they must do? And how can they be assisted?

[Sachin=GOD]

I do not passionately support any political party in India as I see politicians to be made of the same "material" irrespective of the party they belong to. However, I do respect Modi and believe that he is the best choice for the PM post at the moment. One of the big agenda for Modi is development. However, I do feel that India's definition for development should not be the one that is defined in the west. India will have to define development based upon its strengths and weaknesses. By 2030, it is estimated that India’s population will reach 1.5B from the current 1.2B (CAGR 1.3%). This means that India would need to support 17% of the world population on roughly 2% of world’s land area. As we know, India is already strained in terms of resources so even a slight increase can have compounding negative effects. On a relatively larger land area, the US supports approx. 1/4th of India's current population. Now imagine the strain India would put on its resources if an avg Indian started to consume like an avg American. If India does not actively control its population, most measures will be similar to playing the catch up game. Addressing this issue is a big challenge. Another key concern is the environment. I believe that it is the duty of the present generation to preserve the environment for the next generation, and so on. And not ruin it for its own benefits. Countries such as China and India like to believe that the west has developed w/o keeping environment at the core, and now when it is China and India's turn, everyone is complaining. Unfortunately, this is not a valid point as moving forward is about learning from the mistakes of others. As they say, early bird gets the worm so late risers should not complain. Developing countries have to take in to consideration the realities. It also brings the attention to my earlier point on not defining development as per western standards. Considering the above, India has different challenges than what west had when it started to develop. The impact on environment and resources of steam engines running in Europe a 100 years ago is not the same as steam engines running today to support over a 1B people. For me development in India is not about producing more Ambanis, SRKs or Sachins, while others are left behind in terms of economic prosperity. India would be developed when a farmer has access to clean energy, water and air, when the infrastructure in his village is such that both resources and waste are managed efficiently, when he can send his children to quality schools in his neighborhood, when he does not have to worry about the safety of his daughter and wife, when he has access to reliable public transportation, health care and other basic services, etc. And in this environment, he produces enough food for the nation. The challenge for Modi is to manage development that is suitable to India's needs and challenges, which is both social and economic upliftment of its citizens. I admire the clean Ganga project initiative. However, India will not move both socially and economically forward if on one hand the sale of Ferrari's increase, while on the other hand, farmers continue to commit suicide. The government and political parties will have to work together to see that benefits reach everyone, while addressing the challenges related to over-population and environmental degradation. :icflove:

Good post. On the topic of environment - I agree with you but the Govt also has to ensure that industry isn't stifled due to extra rigorous environment laws. Recently you might have read about what former Environment Minister Janthi Natarajan had to say about environment clearance (or rather, the lack of it) in UPA due to interference from Rahul Gandhi - that cost companies billions of dollars and there was also the issue of job loss in the area.

[zen]

We struggle to get a money bill passed in parliament, and you want to make one-family-one child rule (with imprisonment attached in case of non compliance) :hysterical:

Indecision and vested political interest is one of the reasons why Ind can't get bills pass that help national cause. And that's more reasons for Ind to introspect and keep national interest above. If Ind keeps saying that this couldn't happen in past, or this is how we operate, things cannot change, then it will only lead Ind in to a deeper hole As for imprisonment, it could be for serial offenders :P Ind is becoming scary - Women are unsafe, kids are being abused in schools, politicians give disturbing comments, many even think that Ind families should have more kids - in a situation such as this - is Ind just going to wait and watch? Doing that has already led Ind to its current state. I don't know why it should even be an argument against change

I understand your passion, and your intention, but you advocated a totally impractical one. Better one would've been to ship half of our population to the moon and build a base for them there.

If building a base in moon and sending people there appears to be easier way than driving much needed fundamental changes in India, send people to moon. However, if you don't make fundamental changes to how Ind thinks, who knows the moon would become over-populated too :dontknow:

There is no quick fix here. We need our people to rise on their own - which is definitely happening - and work on a collective to address this.

Which basically implies leaving things as they are and hoping everyone understands his/her part, and everything somehow takes care of itself magically :cantstop:

but a massive cut in the next generation, or the generation after that, will mean after say 50-60 yrs, we will be living with the highest elderly population with the active working population being half of it (assuming implementation of your mandatory 2:1 policy) - unless you argue for compulsory euthanasia for present generation when they turn 60-70?

A lack of population planning would to lead to massive over population which is catastrophic too unless do you believe that Ind can support unlimited number of citizens

30% of the population is struggling to get a square meal every day. Please enlighten what retirement saving and financial planning they must do? And how can they be assisted?

The question to ask is why are these 30% struggling? What did Ind do that put it in to a vicious cycle. And because these 30% are struggling, do we not plan to get out of this cycle. Anyways, to answer your Q, there can be different ways to help different segments. These 30% can be helped by creating a specific social benefit fund which helps them with their basic necessities Retire savings and financial planning may not be just at individual level (like what you perceived from my post) but it can be at community level as well where people with less income are subsidized and taken care of by funds pooled from other sources. The social benefit fund could even help these 30% to acquire skills that could make them self sufficient and eventually bring them to a level where they can do their own savings Appears as if you though that everything that I proposed in my last general post was comprehensive enough to be universally applicable to every problem in Ind :P

[zen]

Good post. On the topic of environment - I agree with you but the Govt also has to ensure that industry isn't stifled due to extra rigorous environment laws. Recently you might have read about what former Environment Minister Janthi Natarajan had to say about environment clearance (or rather, the lack of it) in UPA due to interference from Rahul Gandhi - that cost companies billions of dollars and there was also the issue of job loss in the area.

Govt has to strike a balance. While what the last govt did may not have been proper, the present govt should not go to the other extreme where projects are cleared because they bring benefits in the short term but leave a bad legacy on the environment. I am afraid that the politicians could do that to show that they are driving development and a rosy picture to the voters. I hope that the current govt will take a balanced approach For example, a chemical plant could solve short term employment problems, but, say, if it doesn't comply to to environmental regulations and dumps toxic waste in rivers, it will be more harmful in the long run including to the families of those who work at the plant. A proper cost-benefit analysis should be done to create a win-win framework including promoting greener alternatives

[Sachin=GOD]

Govt has to strike a balance. While what the last govt did may not have been proper, the present govt should not go to the other extreme where projects are cleared because they bring benefits in the short term but leave a bad legacy on the environment. I am afraid that the politicians could do that to show that they are driving development and a rosy picture to the voters. I hope that the current govt will take a balanced approach For example, a chemical plant could solve short term employment problems, but, say, if it doesn't comply to to environmental regulations and dumps toxic waste in rivers, it will be more harmful in the long run including to the families of those who work at the plant. A proper cost-benefit analysis should be done to create a win-win framework including promoting greener alternatives

Of course. But right now Industry seems to have the upper hand - thats been done by Modi Sarkar to maybe compensate for UPA's rigorous environmental policies or because they have to give back something to their huge donors among the business community.

[zen]

Of course. But right now Industry seems to have the upper hand - thats been done by Modi Sarkar to maybe compensate for UPA's rigorous environmental policies or because they have to give back something to their huge donors among the business community.

It is fine if the industry has the upper hand, but the industry has to acts responsibly too and the govt has to work with the industry to design a win-win framework

[jalebi_bhai]

First and foremost, thanks for the detailed and dignified. :two_thumbs_up:

As for over-population, the problem needs to be solved by taking a strategic approach. For example - let's assume that 2/3rd of Ind's population a) is poor and b) lives in villages. These two factors would further show that poor people usually do labor intensive work, and in villages too most of the work is labor intensive. What do families that are poor and/or do labor intensive work think? They probably think about adding more manpower, and ofc more children could result in to better support during their retirement .... Now how do you add more manpower? (I guess there is no need to go into this) One way to address this issue is by government undertaking a massive family planning and education program. Additionally, laws such as 1 child per 1 male (family, etc.) can be introduced so if a guy already has a kid, he cannot have another child even if he remarries. There should be severe penalties in violation of such laws, may be including imprisonment so people understand the seriousness of the issue :dontknow:

I agree with the idea of a 'cap' in terms of numbers. The big issue will be on finding the right solution/solutions. There is practicality on one side and then there is the emotional aspect to keep in mind. The only viable solution I see is a campaign that will activate a widespread awareness and self-realization among rural masses. Aggressive and forceful tactics were tried in 1976 without much success.

Those needing additional manpower could be helped by providing equipment at subsidized cost or even free (technology a savior)

Schemes for the above already exist, though I'm not sure about the efficacy.

Proper retirement saving and financial planning programs can be made available to the poor so they don't have to worry about having to work in their old age or think that by having more children, they can get better support in their old age

Schemes to increase financial inclusiveness have been implemented during both UPA and current NDA regime. I think these schemes will play a role in ensuring that rural people take advantage of the banking system. So in short, govts. have initiated moves.

If you want to talk about extremely extreme measures (and an example of where technology could be a boon), watch the scene in the 1993 movie "Demolition Man" on how technology was used to bring Stallone and Sandra together :P

The only viable extreme measure I can think of is an income based cap on family numbers. But too much sentimentality involved in its implementation, and rightfully so.

In short, there are various variables which need to be addressed by the government by designing and implementing a comprehensive strategy. Failure to do so could be catastrophic for Ind

We've missed one particular variable in our discussion :winky: Should we bother discussing it?

[jalebi_bhai]

:hysterical::hysterical: In effect go back to the dark days of Sanjay Gandhi - induced sterlization etc. We struggle to get a money bill passed in parliament, and you want to make one-family-one child rule (with imprisonment attached in case of non compliance) :hysterical: Nobody is expecting even the uniform civil conduct to be possible despite Modi govt's huge majority in LS. I understand your passion, and your intention, but you advocated a totally impractical one. Better one would've been to ship half of our population to the moon and build a base for them there. There is no quick fix here. We need our people to rise on their own - which is definitely happening - and work on a collective to address this. The next 20-30 yrs are going to be extra critical - with our nation having the world's largest working population, but a massive cut in the next generation, or the generation after that, will mean after say 50-60 yrs, we will be living with the highest elderly population with the active working population being half of it (assuming implementation of your mandatory 2:1 policy) - unless you argue for compulsory euthanasia for present generation when they turn 60-70?:((

There needs to be some moderation with regards to population. But rett's solution isn't viable. IMO, the only viable way population control can happen is through self-realization.

[Sachin=GOD]

It is fine if the industry has the upper hand' date=' [b']but the industry has to acts responsibly too and the govt has to work with the industry to design a win-win framework

That is the problem - I for one don't trust the industry to act responsibly. Lets see what Modi Sarkar does to create a balance.

[zen]

We've missed one particular variable in our discussion :winky: Should we bother discussing it?

Good to know that some programs are in place, however Ind will need a determined effort to combat over population .... The 2030 projection is scary enough - 17% of world's population on 2% of world's land area .... In terms of GDP (PPP, 2013), India's was approx. 6% of World's (For comparison, China's, which has similar population, was approx. 16%) And let's leave the other variable for discussion for some other day :P

[Sachin=GOD]

Corporate spying: 2 oil ministry staff among 5 held http://www.rediff.com/news/report/petroleum-ministry-staffers-arrested-for-leaking-info/20150219.htm

[Texan]

I do not passionately support any political party in India as I see politicians to be made of the same "material" irrespective of the party they belong to. However, I do respect Modi and believe that he is the best choice for the PM post at the moment. One of the big agenda for Modi is development. However, I do feel that India's definition for development should not be the one that is defined in the west. India will have to define development based upon its strengths and weaknesses. By 2030, it is estimated that India’s population will reach 1.5B from the current 1.2B (CAGR 1.3%). This means that India would need to support 17% of the world population on roughly 2% of world’s land area. As we know, India is already strained in terms of resources so even a slight increase can have compounding negative effects. On a relatively larger land area, the US supports approx. 1/4th of India's current population. Now imagine the strain India would put on its resources if an avg Indian started to consume like an avg American. If India does not actively control its population, most measures will be similar to playing the catch up game. Addressing this issue is a big challenge. Another key concern is the environment. I believe that it is the duty of the present generation to preserve the environment for the next generation, and so on. And not ruin it for its own benefits. Countries such as China and India like to believe that the west has developed w/o keeping environment at the core, and now when it is China and India's turn, everyone is complaining. Unfortunately, this is not a valid point as moving forward is about learning from the mistakes of others. As they say, early bird gets the worm so late risers should not complain. Developing countries have to take in to consideration the realities. It also brings the attention to my earlier point on not defining development as per western standards. Considering the above, India has different challenges than what west had when it started to develop. The impact on environment and resources of steam engines running in Europe a 100 years ago is not the same as steam engines running today to support over a 1B people. For me development in India is not about producing more Ambanis, SRKs or Sachins, while others are left behind in terms of economic prosperity. India would be developed when a farmer has access to clean energy, water and air, when the infrastructure in his village is such that both resources and waste are managed efficiently, when he can send his children to quality schools in his neighborhood, when he does not have to worry about the safety of his daughter and wife, when he has access to reliable public transportation, health care and other basic services, etc. And in this environment, he produces enough food for the nation. The challenge for Modi is to manage development that is suitable to India's needs and challenges, which is both social and economic upliftment of its citizens. I admire the clean Ganga project initiative. However, India will not move both socially and economically forward if on one hand the sale of Ferrari's increase, while on the other hand, farmers continue to commit suicide. The government and political parties will have to work together to see that benefits reach everyone, while addressing the challenges related to over-population and environmental degradation. :icflove:

+1 Unfortunately, the big issues that you have highlighted are not even on the agenda for most political parties. 1. Population control: It is high time we introduce some "strict" measures and not just hope that family planning messages will help control the population. One good news from the 2011 census is that the growth rate across all religions has declined, but that is just not good enough. Growth rates need to show much sharper declines, especially among the poorer sections of society. 2. Pollution control: Very under-rated issue in India. You can tell by the Delhi elections, the city with possibly the worst air in the World, had no party mention anything about how to control pollution in their agenda. Add to that, the AAP giving a "free hand" to small industries to pollute as much as they want. 3. Farmer Suicides: The biggest problem here is that the farmers get a pittance for what they deliver. Middle men hog all the money and pass on very little to the farmer. That is why we need FDI in retail. When big corporations compete in the retail market, they will cut out the middle man and hopefully, the farmer will get better returns for his effort and also have access to better techniques to get more yield from his crops.

[zen]

+1 Unfortunately, the big issues that you have highlighted are not even on the agenda for most political parties. 1. Population control: It is high time we introduce some "strict" measures and not just hope that family planning messages will help control the population. One good news from the 2011 census is that the growth rate across all religions has declined, but that is just not good enough. Growth rates need to show much sharper declines, especially among the poorer sections of society. 2. Pollution control: Very under-rated issue in India. You can tell by the Delhi elections, the city with possibly the worst air in the World, had no party mention anything about how to control pollution in their agenda. Add to that, the AAP giving a "free hand" to small industries to pollute as much as they want. 3. Farmer Suicides: The biggest problem here is that the farmers get a pittance for what they deliver. Middle men hog all the money and pass on very little to the farmer. That is why we need FDI in retail. When big corporations compete in the retail market, they will cut out the middle man and hopefully, the farmer will get better returns for his effort and also have access to better techniques to get more yield from his crops.

You made a good point about neither population nor pollution being portrayed as a key issue by any political party. Because people in Ind are used to living in such an environment, they probably don't realize how bad the situation has become. It is sad to see that Ind doesn't have too many visionary politicians. To make things worse, many of them are at least a generation behind in their thought process. I am all for strict rules on both population and pollution control. In Ind, people do understand the difference b/w what is good and bad, but voluntary most of them do what is convenient .... For e.g., you will see that homes of many in India are spot clean, but the same people will not shy away from dumping their garbage on the street or just empty it from the balcony (hopefully w/o hitting anyone walking on the street). Take driving for example as well, it is a chaos. When it comes to parking, many people park right in front of a house's gate - how can that home owner get his car in or out. If somebody is hurt on the road or getting attacked, many people watch it as if it is some reality show and do nothing to help .... And when some of these people live/go abroad, their basic etiquette magically transform in to a responsible one. Why not live responsibly in India too? Why keep "chalta hai" attitude in Ind? From what's on display - India needs strict rules. Voluntarily things may not change at the required pace. Who knows, Ind may well hit the self-destruct button if it does not get its priorities in order :dontknow:

[amiret]

BJP may give in on Art 370, not AFSPA, Naidu hints :

NEW DELHI: As negotiations between BJP and PDP continue on the contentious issues of Article 370 and Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) before the two agree to form the government in Jammu and Kashmir, Union minister Venkaiah Naidu has hinted that while the former could be discussed, the latter was non-negotiable.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Lifting-AFSPA-from-Valley-not-an-option-Venkaiah-Naidu-says/articleshow/46306853.cms

[seedhi]

BJP may give in on Art 370, not AFSPA, Naidu hints : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Lifting-AFSPA-from-Valley-not-an-option-Venkaiah-Naidu-says/articleshow/46306853.cms

Won't be the first time. They put Article 370 on the backburner during Vajpayee's time, and it is not on agenda even in the present NDA govt.

[zen]

As long as there are folks such as Geelani (along with Pak sponsored anti-Ind activities), it is unlikely that AFSPA will be removed esp. from the Kashmir Valley. People in the valley would have to proactively fight against such anti-Ind elements for AFSPA to be removed sooner rather than later .... I am not sure if AFSPA is in place in Jammu and Ladakh, but if yes, there could be a case to reduce the troops in these areas