undisputed chap Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Cook & dhoni are both experienced captains who have got some great wins under their belts but recently are going downhill. Cook has 3 ashes victories & a series win in India. Dhoni has been a great odi captain & except eng has been great at home . For cook it started going downhill when his captaincy started been criticized for being boring even when they were winning. His form with bat went away. Then in ashes his side was anhilated by johnson & co. He was unable to inspire the team & they lost 5-0 to aussies. But his bad luck didn't end there . Swann had quit midseries, trott couldnt battle his demons anymore, his trusted deputy was dropped & they blamed it all on kp & made him scapegoat. But now again his woeful defensive captaincy continues his pathetic form continues & is a burden on his own team while they call for his head Dhoni has been india's best loi captain. He took india to no 1 in tests. Won the world cup . But then the downside started. India's batting greats had peaked there's nothing left in them. Dhoni had no idea what was to be done. They went up against maybe the best english side ever. & were humiliated. The same happened vs the aussies. He won some series at home but the again lost to the english but this time in india. On the way he lost all of india's batting greats. At present he has a record of 0-10 overseas. But again india is to play england in england followed by aussie in aus.. Both cook & dhoni have had massive up & downs. They are set to battle once more. A victory now means more now as they now seek a reprive for their captaincy & maybe even a spot in their own teams.
Temujin Khaghan Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 This series is the competition for who is the bigger idiot...
vamos_rafa Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 This series is the competition for who is the bigger idiot... +1.
tweaker Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 This series will decide the fate of both this captain.
gattaca Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Both defensive captains at work both have a lot to prove will be interesting .
King Tendulkar Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 This series is the competition for who is the bigger idiot... Indeed:hysterical:
BlueBee Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 This series is the competition for who is the bigger idiot... Exactly !
Straight Drive Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 At least we can expect competition as two struggling teams are playing each other. Won't be as one sided when we toured there last time. Lets not compare Dhoni to Cook. Cook has lot of double hundreds as well as he has won overseas test series in Asia. Dhoni on the other hand has just one double hundred and hasn't won any series against major nation outside Asia. Cook>Dhoni in tests.
BlueBee Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 At least we can expect competition as two struggling teams are playing each other. Won't be as one sided when we toured there last time. Lets not compare Dhoni to Cook. Cook has lot of double hundreds as well as he has won overseas test series in Asia. Dhoni on the other hand has just one double hundred and hasn't won any series against major nation outside Asia. Cook>Dhoni in tests. Agree! But what we're comparing is their captaincy which is the same "defensive mode".
Straight Drive Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Agree! But what we're comparing is their captaincy which is the same "defensive mode". Captaincy wise i think Cook easily has an upper hand over Dhoni as far as away test series wins are concerned. The way he led his team personally with his own runs as well as captaincy to win test series against India in India after being 1 down was excellent captaincy. The day when Dhoni does something like that in away test series, i would be the first to appreciate him. In fact i would appreciate Dhoni even if he draws an away test series, lest win it. My best expectations from Dhoni's captaincy is a draw overseas whereas with Cook as captain i expect overseas series wins from him. That says it all about how i rate them as captains. As far as defensive approach is concerned i have hardly seen a specialist Asian spinner being used so defensively the way Dhoni has used Ashwin. Dhoni is more defensive that Cook imo.
BlueBee Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Captaincy wise i think Cook easily has an upper hand over Dhoni as far as away test series wins are concerned. The way he led his team personally with his own runs as well as captaincy to win test series against India in India after being 1 down was excellent captaincy. The day when Dhoni does something like that in away test series, i would be the first to appreciate him. In fact i would appreciate Dhoni even if he draws an away test series, lest win it. My best expectations from Dhoni's captaincy is a draw overseas whereas with Cook as captain i expect overseas series wins from him. That says it all about how i rate them as captains. Well that's your opinion! But I don't think Cook has an upper hand. Under pressure Dhoni is a better captain whereas cook under pressure just doesn't seem to be a good captain. A choker to say the least! Dhoni though a very defensive captain at least don't choke under pressure. And as per their batting is concerned both are different, their position, their techniques and their styles all are different. So, you can't compare them.
Straight Drive Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Well that's your opinion! But I don't think Cook has an upper hand. Under pressure Dhoni is a better captain whereas cook under pressure just doesn't seem to be a good captain. A choker to say the least! Dhoni though a very defensive captain at least don't choke under pressure. And as per their batting is concerned both are different, their position, their techniques and their styles all are different. So, you can't compare them. How many tests series Dhoni has captained overseas and how many has he won. I doubt he has won more overseas series than Cook even though Cook got test captaincy at least couple of years after Dhoni got it. As a batsman Cook is better imo. Cook averages 47 with bat whereas Dhoni averages 39 . 8 runs difference is vast imo and a class higher for sure if not two classes higher . I actually would not even compare Cook and Dhoni. Cook should be compared with a better Indian test batsman.
BlueBee Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 As a batsman Cook is better imo. Cook averages 47 with bat whereas Dhoni averages 39 . 9 runs difference is vast imo and a class higher for sure if not two classes higher . I actually would not even compare Cook and Dhoni. Cook should be compared with a better Indian test batsman. Exactly what I'm saying! Cook is of a tad higher class. And regarding the average, Cook plays as an opener so he don't have any pressure on him. He can play freely and score heavily, whereas Dhoni comes in at 6 or 7, with merely any batters to come after. He don't get tha kind of partner who can stand along with at one end. And Regarding Captaincy, Cook has won outside England because he gets support from the team. There is Anderson and spinners like Panesar and Swann(was), we don't have the bowlers which can do well overseas. Yes this time I expect some good competition as we have a good bowling side this year.
gattaca Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 This series is the competition for who is the bigger idiot... Only if someone can tweet this to dhoni,cook lol.
Straight Drive Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Exactly what I'm saying! Cook is of a tad higher class. And regarding the average, Cook plays as an opener so he don't have any pressure on him. He can play freely and score heavily, whereas Dhoni comes in at 6 or 7, with merely any batters to come after. He don't get tha kind of partner who can stand along with at one end. And Regarding Captaincy, Cook has won outside England because he gets support from the team. There is Anderson and spinners like Panesar and Swann(was), we don't have the bowlers which can do well overseas. Yes this time I expect some good competition as we have a good bowling side this year. How come there is no pressure at international level. In defense of Cook i would further say that as an opener batting mostly in English conditions, he has to face swing and pace. Also, the pace bowlers are fresh at start of their spells than after they bowl later in innings when due to tiredness, they drop few miles in their third or fourth spells. As you say Dhoni bats lower and runs out of partners at other end, hence there is also a chance of him being not out due to declarations as well as remaining not out as the tail enders get out before him. So his average should actually be more if we use that logic. Similarly i can argue that Dhoni has to face spinners when the ball is old and mostly helping spinners as he plays in Asia. The point is the advantages and disadvantages are too many to debate about in various conditions and various batting order. We have to take the average as a comparison factor, provided the sample size of matches played is big enough to make a fair comparison. I agree Cook has better bowlers as compared to what Dhoni has, however, Cook did not have as good batters as Viru,Sachin,Rahul, VVS.
BlueBee Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 How come there is no pressure at international level. In defense of Cook i would further say that as an opener batting mostly in English conditions, he has to face swing and pace. Also, the pace bowlers are fresh at start of their spells than after they bowl later in innings when due to tiredness, they drop few miles in their third or fourth spells. As you say Dhoni bats lower and runs out of partners at other end, hence there is also a chance of him being not out due to declarations as well as remaining not out as the tail enders get out before him. So his average should actually be more if we use that logic. Similarly i can argue that Dhoni has to face spinners when the ball is old and mostly helping spinners as he plays in Asia. The point is the advantages and disadvantages are too many to debate about in various conditions and various batting order. We have to take the average as a comparison factor, provided the sample size of matches played is big enough to make a fair comparison. I agree Cook has better bowlers as compared to what Dhoni has, however, Cook did not have as good batters as Viru,Sachin,Rahul, VVS. Why are you comparing them? Both are of different leagues. Lets not compare them regarding the batting. What I'm saying is they are both defensive captains and this serie would be competition for who is the bigger idiot better captain ... :P
moniker Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 At least we can expect competition as two struggling teams are playing each other. Won't be as one sided when we toured there last time. Lets not compare Dhoni to Cook. Cook has lot of double hundreds as well as he has won overseas test series in Asia. Dhoni on the other hand has just one double hundred and hasn't won any series against major nation outside Asia. Cook>Dhoni in tests. Cook hasn't effected any stumpings too. :dontknow: I'm no fan of Dhoni, but you can't really compare a top order batsman with a wicket keeper.
singhprakash72 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 If it was possible both will go for 8 batsmen and start with a 10 fielders on the rope from first ball ! Jokes aside it will be interesting how both react to the criticism heaped on them. Dhoni should have started on high but England is in same situation as Aussies were in 2011 series...which we ended up being drubbed 4-0.
asterix Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 This series is the competition for who is the bigger idiot...
velu Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Dont think kaptain cool will be losing his sleep about this micky mouse series. :finger:
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