Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[wazza]

22 minutes ago, Axl100mph said:

Was the MCG final last year also played on an abrasive dustbowl?

 

How come was he not blown away there and instead look the most threatening bowler on show from both sides?

 

 

In tests bud. Not falt t20 who no one cares about. 

He sucks. 

 

Shaheen is the best from Pakistan..  

[MediumPacer]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Siraj hits top speeds of 143 k to 148 k in different matches. Bowls lots of 140 k+ deliveries. 

 

Doubt Kaverappa will come anywhere close. 

why not ,they are similar pace.

[MediumPacer]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Siraj hits top speeds of 143 k to 148 k in different matches. Bowls lots of 140 k+ deliveries. 

 

Doubt Kaverappa will come anywhere close. 

https://www.bcci.tv/videos/5559865/prof-d-b-deodhar-trophy-2023-24-fantastic-five-red-hot-kaverappas-lethal-517

 

 

 

 

 

 

looks similar

[Lone Wolf]

7 minutes ago, wazza said:

In tests bud. Not falt t20 who no one cares about. 

He sucks. 

 

Shaheen is the best from Pakistan..  

He doesn't anymore... He is good or even better than Shaheen with old ball.  Pakistan has got a great prospect with him. 

[Lone Wolf]

48 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Naseem will get enough bounce in Australia. I believe he has worked with Steffan Jones recently and that shows in his new ball performance in SL. The issue is finding the right length in places like Perth.  Also, coming back for spell after spell is crucial as you don't get appreciable reverse over there.

 

If he can bowl the right length and maintain speed, he will definitely be effective. The problem for PAK is that even if Naseem and Shaheen do that, they have no 3rd seamer to do that and OZ will target that ruthlessly.

 

Thumbs up to PCB....  They really are working more professionally & making an effort towards their players. 

QEA trophy has really transformed with that new structure & is way better than Ranji Trophy in reality. 

 

They should try Ihsanullah or that Arshad Iqbal guy as a third wheel option in Aus. 

Likes of Hassan Ali & Wasim Jnr would undo all the good work anyways & Aussies would feast on their pies.  

A defensive line length containing trundler would also be decent.. 

[MediumPacer]

Just now, Lone Wolf said:

Thumbs up to PCB....  They really are working more professionally & making an effort towards their players. 

QEA trophy has really transformed with that new structure & is way better than Ranji Trophy in reality. 

 

They should try Ihsanullah or that Arshad Iqbal guy as a third wheel option in Aus. 

Likes of Hassan Ali & Wasim Jnr would undo all the good work anyways & Aussies would feast on their pies.  

A defensive line length containing trundler would also be decent.. 

Pakistan always had quick pace bowlers ,certainly quicker than india's ,it's nothing new.Even before 6 domestic teams they had quick pacers ,pace bowling allrounders,wrist spinners and spin bowling allrounders and also middle order batsmen and big hitters .Their issues are top order batting ,catching and fielding.

[singhvivek141]

2 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Pakistan always had quick pace bowlers ,certainly quicker than india's ,it's nothing new.Even before 6 domestic teams they had quick pacers ,pace bowling allrounders,wrist spinners and spin bowling allrounders and also middle order batsmen and big hitters .Their issues are top order batting ,catching and fielding.

No sir, I respectfully disagree here.

Indian has a much bigger pool of fast bowlers which Pakistan can only dream off. One advantage which they has is their ecosystem supports fast bowlers unlike ours. PCB is ready to shell money to the foreign coaches instead of BCCI which is just focused on money and power.

 

Indian domestic circuit mindset is against fast bowlers and heavily favours batters(stat padders) and slow trundlers.

 

Hence, unless BCCI won't invest in the ecosystem to develop fast bowlers, all these numbers are not going to achieve much. 

[MediumPacer]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

No sir, I respectfully disagree here.

Indian has a much bigger pool of fast bowlers which Pakistan can only dream off. One advantage which they has is their ecosystem supports fast bowlers unlike ours. PCB is ready to shell money to the foreign coaches instead of BCCI which is just focused on money and power.

 

Indian domestic circuit mindset is against fast bowlers and heavily favours batters(stat padders) and slow trundlers.

 

Hence, unless BCCI won't invest in the ecosystem to develop fast bowlers, all these numbers are not going to achieve much. 

Pak is mad about their quick pacers ,we are nothing like that .Also our talent scouts ,biomechanics and technical aspects are poor.

[Axl100mph]

Del

Edited July 28, 2023 by Axl100mph

[singhvivek141]

11 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Pak is mad about their quick pacers ,we are nothing like that .Also our talent scouts ,biomechanics and technical aspects are poor.

Fault lies with our selection committee...no body wants to put a real effort to figure out the players who are actually talented. Everyone right from top to bottom want a ready made bowler so that they don't have to waste time on that. Most of our coaches are selectors are (sorry to say this) buffoons.

 

Trundlers find it easier to control line and length and it requires some conditioning and training and rhythm for the quicks to maintain the control. Ishant was having release issues since ages but none of our buffon bowling coaches can fix that. He needed help of a Jason Gilliepie to fix that and it shows in the performance after.

 

[Axl100mph]

42 minutes ago, wazza said:

In tests bud. Not falt t20 who no one cares about. 

He sucks. 

 

Shaheen is the best from Pakistan..  

As if the kind of bowling he did in that match wouldnt be relevant and threatening in a test match. 

 

 

Thankyou for letting me know who not to take seriously over here. 

 

 

 

 

[MediumPacer]

Just now, singhvivek141 said:

Fault lies with our selection committee...no body wants to put a real effort to figure out the players who are actually talented. Everyone right from top to bottom want a ready made bowler so that they don't have to waste time on that. Most of our coaches are selectors are (sorry to say this) buffoons.

 

Trundlers find it easier to control line and length and it requires some conditioning and training and rhythm for the quicks to maintain the control. Ishant was having release issues since ages but none of our buffon bowling coaches can fix that. He needed help of a Jason Gilliepie to fix that and it shows in the performance after.

 

Our system is now like a govt job ,every one has to be in queue,no one can cut the line .No wonder we are debuting 30yr olds.With pacers we need more dynamism.

 

 

With quick bowlers bio mechanics also becomes imperative otherwise they will have to cut down pace to bowl accurately ,also we look for effective bowlers which means we will mostly get finger spinners and slow pacers in our conditions.

[MediumPacer]

On this pitch finger spin is the best .

[express bowling]

29 minutes ago, Axl100mph said:

As if the kind of bowling he did in that match wouldnt be relevant and threatening in a test match. 

 

It will be.

 

I havent watched Naseem as much as you and so you have a better idea.

 

But my impression about him is that his bowling looks very good when he gets swing at 137 k to 142 k or more. He gets a natural skid which is dangerous. 

 

While he needs to improve the bounce aspect.  If the ball is not moving then he may have issues. 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by express bowling

[the don]

59 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

No sir, I respectfully disagree here.

Indian has a much bigger pool of fast bowlers which Pakistan can only dream off. One advantage which they has is their ecosystem supports fast bowlers unlike ours. PCB is ready to shell money to the foreign coaches instead of BCCI which is just focused on money and power.

 

Indian domestic circuit mindset is against fast bowlers and heavily favours batters(stat padders) and slow trundlers.

 

Hence, unless BCCI won't invest in the ecosystem to develop fast bowlers, all these numbers are not going to achieve much. 

 

Edit: i misread the post. You are talking about the current pool. I still disagree because i know that Lahore Qalandars econsystem alone produces quicker bowlers but thats a different debate.

Edited July 28, 2023 by the don

[MediumPacer]

speedometer working 85kph sla

[MediumPacer]

finger spin is unplayable

[Vijy]

17 minutes ago, the don said:

Sir please list the top speeds that Indian bowlers have clocked over the years than ill tell you how many Pakistani bowlers have clocked quicker speeds. Even random names. Please go ahead. Wahab riaz alone has bowled more 150 kph deliveries than anyone in indian history, put your bias aside and you’ll realize. Anyways please state top speeds clocked by indian bowlers.

there are several who clocked 150 in just one IPL; I forget the edition number. I remember even siraj had hit 150 once in that IPL. All the data is somewhere in this thread, but it is 1400+ pages.

 

also, just to focus on the highlighted part, umran clocked 156-157 kph. I don't recall any Pak player after shoaib and sami doing that.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Vijy

[Axl100mph]

13 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

It will be.

 

I havent watched Naseem as much as you and so you have a better idea.

 

But my impression about him is that his bowling looks very good when he gets swing at 137 k to 142 k or more. He gets a natural skid which is dangerous. 

 

While he needs to improve the bounce aspect.  If the ball is not moving then he may have issues.

He gets some seam movement and the skid you mentioned because of imparting a good amount of backspin on the ball, however he needs to develop the 3 quarter seam and wobble variations to survive on flat tracks. You can't be be swing reliant in tests, be it from new or old ball. 

 

The bouncer has improved slightly ever since he did sessions with Steffan who is most likely trying to open up his front leg with the drills he has made him do.

 

He has always had crossed legs which never allows you to finish your action completely which is something of paramount importance when trying to bowl short with purpose. 

[singhvivek141]

13 minutes ago, the don said:

Sir please list the top speeds that Indian bowlers have clocked over the years than ill tell you how many Pakistani bowlers have clocked quicker speeds. Even random names. Please go ahead. Wahab riaz alone has bowled more 150 kph deliveries than anyone in indian history, put your bias aside and you’ll realize. Anyways please state top speeds clocked by indian bowlers.

If you would have read my comment in detail, I made it very clear that why despite being a huge pool of quicks, we are not selecting the pace bowlers and backing them enough.

If they won't play internationals, how  they will clock high speeds ? All the quicks we have produced are getting rotten in domestic circuit because of our pitches heavily tilted towards the low bounce or batting highways. There are hardly enough pitches in India which favours quicks.

 

When a bowler is backed even slightly, I.e. Varun Aaron, Umran Malik they have clocked 150+ multiple times in International Cricket. 

 

Every IPL season, we unearth fast bowlers, who turn the heat on speedometer. But the next stage, the progression is where they don't get a chance.

 

In terms of raw pace and the lineup of fast bowlers. Yes, India has more fast bowlers than Pakistan...

 

Tyagi, Umran, Sen, Mohsin, Saini, Harshit all have clocked 149+ in IPL. Umran and Tyagi have clocked 150+ multiple times

 

Nagarkoti has clocked 146-147, Prasidh 147-148, Yudhvir has clocked 144-145. Then there is Mayank Yadav who is untested on IPL speed guns but in domestic speed guns he is as quick as Harshit.

 

Avinash Singh is another 150+ pacer but as I haven't seen him hit those speeds, verdict is still out. But his runup and action is carbon copy of Umran.

 

In Pakistan, the scenario is different, they pickup the fastest pacers first and then they work on it. In India unfortunately, the pickup the pacers who has best control and then they leave it in internationals to learn of their own.