Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[MediumPacer]

12 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Not sure of other 2 Shah brother, bt what makes Naseem different is the amount of bounce/kick he gets from the pitch from awkward length for being a shorter bowler.

Then it dart around after pitching, with his height he was supposed to be skiddy bt he gets bounce which makes it difficult for a batter who has not played him before.

 

Mavi lost pace bowling sub 125 kmph in t20s, not sure what pace he will bowl in FC/test, Inswining bowlers are not preferred in T20s/Odis but in test they are good as any. Teams can maintain pressure on the batter all the time will make them play and with natural wear tear few bowls will leave a right handed batter to be effective.

 

I think that's why Rana was not picked in the starting 11 for KKR in the starting because he does not have outswing ball, but with his height and bounce  he got made it tough for batters thats why Ind can try him in tests first

 

 

Naseem doenst get that much bounce ,if anything bounce only allows batters to play their strokes in asian conditions.

 

Mavi doesnt bowl under 125 in t20s ,it's a ridiculous claim .Even under 125 someone like sandeep sharma does quite well in t20s,Infact 130-140 is ideal pace for strokeplay in india.At speeds around 120, ball wont come onto the bat and make it difficult for the batsmen to time the ball.

 

Rana does have outswing but lacks control.Bounce and pace is what allows batsmen to play their shots in India .This is why i would pick a shami or even umesh over a hazelwood or rabada in india .

[MediumPacer]

12 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Brainless raw pace is different, pace plus movement is what we're looking.

Rauf, Riaz, Sami type bowlers are not comparable to Steyn, Gillespie type bowlers..who can hit 145 when needed but were extremely success.

 

If we can prepare pitches will different nature (like in Australia), it will have sufficient support for every type of bowler.

how do you then explain umesh and shami doing well in inda ,neither are that smart .

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

how do you then explain umesh and shami doing well in inda ,neither are that smart .

Shami is a smart bowler and is skilful as well. He has the ability to plan a dismissal and hence he is one of the most successful bowlers ever.

 

Umesh too is very skilful, its just that he lacks control and hence end up spraying the bowl even at a low pace. But he has the ability to produce jaffa's out of nowhere. In 2016-17 SA series Umesh bowled with a slightly slingy action to generate tremendous amount of reverse swing at pace.

[MediumPacer]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/sponsored-content/mrf-has-launched-its-ace-of-pace-initiative-which-aims-to-discover-india-s-fast-bowlers-1424580

 

 

will it make any difference ,

 

 

Quote

Three standout talents - Jaskaran Singh, aged 20 from Rajasthan - Sriganganagar, Mohd Izhar aged - 20 from Bihar - Birpur, Muhammad Sarfraj, aged - 20 from Ranchi - Jharkhand, were selected from among the many aspiring bowlers, to train for free at the prestigious MRF Pace Foundation. These bowlers will be enrolled in the academy to hone and develop their skills under the guidance of the Foundation's Director, the legendary fast bowler, Glenn McGrath, and Chief Coach, M. Senthilnathan.

 

 

 

The 3 highlighted guys are from bihar,jharkhand and rajasthan ,will we ever hear from them again.

 

 

[MediumPacer]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

Shami is a smart bowler and is skilful as well. He has the ability to plan a dismissal and hence he is one of the most successful bowlers ever.

 

Umesh too is very skilful, its just that he lacks control and hence end up spraying the bowl even at a low pace. But he has the ability to produce jaffa's out of nowhere. In 2016-17 SA series Umesh bowled with a slightly slingy action to generate tremendous amount of reverse swing at pace.

I wont call them smart ,they are condition dependent bowlers .By your standard any wicket taker is smart ,maybe even jadeja becomes smart .

 

 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

 

Mavi doesnt bowl under 125 in t20s ,it's a ridiculous claim .Even under 125 someone like sandeep sharma does quite well in t20s,Infact 130-140 is ideal pace for strokeplay in india.At speeds around 120, ball wont come onto the bat and make it difficult for the batsmen to time the ball.

Only when you use this as a surprise.

If a bowler keeps on bowling at 120-125k, it gives batters enough time to line up and tonk the ball considering how thick the bats are.

 

One reason where this can come handy in T20's is when the bowler is either superbly accurate or bowls away from the batters hitting arc. Since most of the batters these days don't move their feet much and rely more on hand power & bat speed, an edge can more often than not land in the ground. That's not true for quicks as even their edges often fly away to the boundary.

 

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

Bounce and pace is what allows batsmen to play their shots in India .This is why i would pick a shami or even umesh over a hazelwood or rabada in india .

Not necessarily, many Indian domestic batters are uncomfortable against pace and bounce. Sarfaraz was uncomfortable against Wood in IPL, same guy was tonking Bhuvi for fun. 

 

In India most of the pitches don't have true bounce and hence don't rise above the ribs. The moment bounce start hitting at helmets of the batters, you will immediately see the fear in their style of play. Raina, Iyer, Nitish Rana all has this issue.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

9 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

I wont call them smart ,they are condition dependent bowlers .By your standard any wicket taker is smart ,maybe even jadeja becomes smart .

 

Shami has under 25 bowling avg in India, SA, SL, WI. Different conditions. Not 100% perfect but isn't a one trick pony either.

 

Umesh too isn't condition dependent bowler, he has good stats in India Bangaldesh but poor in SL. Borderline decentish in England but poor in NZ. He is mood dependent.

[MediumPacer]

17 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Shami has under 25 bowling avg in India, SA, SL, WI. Different conditions. Not 100% perfect but isn't a one trick pony either.

 

Umesh too isn't condition dependent bowler, he has good stats in India Bangaldesh but poor in SL. Borderline decentish in England but poor in NZ. He is mood dependent.

Sa pitches have been up and down but otherwise the other 3 are similar . Shami has better control so he is more dependable  .Umesh isnt mood dependent ,he just an idiot but because we arent any good at pace bowling so we needed him.

[MediumPacer]

32 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Only when you use this as a surprise.

If a bowler keeps on bowling at 120-125k, it gives batters enough time to line up and tonk the ball considering how thick the bats are.

 

One reason where this can come handy in T20's is when the bowler is either superbly accurate or bowls away from the batters hitting arc. Since most of the batters these days don't move their feet much and rely more on hand power & bat speed, an edge can more often than not land in the ground. That's not true for quicks as even their edges often fly away to the boundary.

 

Not necessarily, many Indian domestic batters are uncomfortable against pace and bounce. Sarfaraz was uncomfortable against Wood in IPL, same guy was tonking Bhuvi for fun. 

 

In India most of the pitches don't have true bounce and hence don't rise above the ribs. The moment bounce start hitting at helmets of the batters, you will immediately see the fear in their style of play. Raina, Iyer, Nitish Rana all has this issue.

 

 

I can also bring up Kohli  getting dismissed by sandeep sharma.

 

That pitch at Lucknow had inconsistent bounce,so wood was effective otherwise we saw what happened during the test series.sarfaraz padikal all scored runs ,even kuldeep and bumrah couldn't be dislodged by wood.

[MediumPacer]

45 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Only when you use this as a surprise.

If a bowler keeps on bowling at 120-125k, it gives batters enough time to line up and tonk the ball considering how thick the bats are.

Exactly, that means he can't just time it and tonking is more risky specially in the longer format.

[singhvivek141]

34 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Exactly, that means he can't just time it and tonking is more risky specially in the longer format.

 

If it's a slow and dead track..then I agree. Batters will have to force to generate extra power and hence can mishit in process. SRH & CSK were successful with that approach.

 

If the pitch has a bit of life, 120-125 kph will be easiest to hit.

[singhvivek141]

54 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

I can also bring up Kohli  getting dismissed by sandeep sharma.

 

That pitch at Lucknow had inconsistent bounce,so wood was effective otherwise we saw what happened during the test series.sarfaraz padikal all scored runs ,even kuldeep and bumrah couldn't be dislodged by wood.

Whether Sarfaraz can play the Bounce is still an open question. Indian pacers too didn't often use bounce as a weapon in the test series.

 

But we have seen so far how Shreyas Iyer struggles against bounce, even Kohli for a long time was struggling against the deliveries which were rising off the good length.

 

We need some Australia style pitches in India to test the real ability of playing rising deliveries. Most of the Indian pitches are slow & low bounce and hence bowlers have to pitch really short, which gives adequate time for batters to go back and cut/pull/hook.

[MediumPacer]

28 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

If it's a slow and dead track..then I agree. Batters will have to force to generate extra power and hence can mishit in process. SRH & CSK were successful with that approach.

 

If the pitch has a bit of life, 120-125 kph will be easiest to hit.

It doesn't have to be a dead track ,it could be any track in india,this is why kaushik is successful whereas umran struggles in ranji.

[MediumPacer]

27 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Whether Sarfaraz can play the Bounce is still an open question. Indian pacers too didn't often use

We are talking about ind conditions,in these conditions bouncing the ball will only leak runs.

 

Even siraj and Anderson were more successful than wood .

[express bowling]

In India, what works in tests and ODIs on usual pitches are pacers who are skiddy quick, bowl stump to stump and get consistent movement, either seam movement or reverse swing, even if moderate. 

 

Bumrah, Shami and Umesh are or were all pacy, get zip off the deck and bowl stump to stump with consistent movement. Saw Akashdeep do the same. All these 4 elements are usually needed. 

 

Medium pacers may beat lower quality domestic cricket batters but can't generate the pace and zip needed to beat the international batters on typical slower surfaces.. 

 

While pacers like Wood lack consistent movement and don't bowl stump to stump.  And fail in India.

 

 

[MediumPacer]

Aditya thakre is a better pacer than sen, tyagi,umran in ranji

[Kron]

39 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Aditya thakre is a better pacer than sen, tyagi,umran in ranji

Is he a trundler? Anyone bowling under 135 is not needed no matter how skilled unless they have steep bounce

[MediumPacer]

This ranji season ,umran has an avg of 38 and sr of 70  and thakre avg 20 and sr 47.

[MediumPacer]

4 minutes ago, Kron said:

Is he a trundler? Anyone bowling under 135 is not needed no matter how skilled unless they have steep bounce

He is bowling 116-125k in the ranji final.

[Kron]

54 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

He is bowling 116-125k in the ranji final.

Oh God. Yea bye bye. He will never be int class with that pace