Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Need4Speed]

What is the criterion of trundler <135?

Though I was initially against him but Mukesh Kumar impressed me hitting 138/139 with accuracy and variations..

[tapandrun]

34 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

What is the criterion of trundler <135?

Though I was initially against him but Mukesh Kumar impressed me hitting 138/139 with accuracy and variations..

Any pace is okay in T20s, bowler needs to bat they should have ability to tonk a few.

No team has been able to find a template T20 bowler, bowler needs to have variations and should be able to bowl in such a way that batters are unable to pre-empt and get into their power hitting position. nothing much can be done with modern cricketing shots 

 

Bowlers unable to go 140+ kmph should not be consider for test or ODIs unless have proper batting ability 

[singhvivek141]

Mukesh Kumar has a fan club now. 

 

All the best to Indian Cricket team.

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

What is the criterion of trundler <135?

Though I was initially against him but Mukesh Kumar impressed me hitting 138/139 with accuracy and variations..

 

Problem with these bowlers is that .. they are just 1 niggle away from bowling 125 to 135 k.

 

Moreover, he was rarely crossing 136 k in the longer formats, which he is also playing and not just T20Is. 

[MediumPacer]

2 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

What is the criterion of trundler <135?

Though I was initially against him but Mukesh Kumar impressed me hitting 138/139 with accuracy and variations..

Mukesh is not a that slow ,he is average pace,130-140 is about 5 ks slower than bumrah.

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, MediumPacer said:

Mukesh is not a that slow ,he is average pace,130-140 is about 5 ks slower than bumrah.

 

135 to 140 k is Mukesh's T20 speeds only. He was bowling 127 k to 137 k in tests, while Bumrah still bowls 135 k to 147 k in tests. 

[express bowling]

8 hours ago, cricspirit said:

Prasidh and Arshdeep Singh are tall and young. Not sure why their bowling does not look threatening at all.  How much can they improve at this point of their career. Can they play test matches is my question ??

 

 

Prasidh is a much better bowler in 5 day cricket and 50 over cricket. Often very impressive. He does not have T20 skills yet.

 

After his return from injury, Prasidh was bowling some accurate and quick yorkers in the LOIs he played. So, I want to see how he does in a low importance T20I series, if he gets atleast 3 or 4 games on the trot. 

 

 

[MediumPacer]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

135 to 140 k is Mukesh's T20 speeds only. He was bowling 127 k to 137 k in tests, while Bumrah still bowls 135 k to 147 k in tests. 

You are exaggerating it,bumrah too has operated at a lower pace in tests

[Need4Speed]

12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Problem with these bowlers is that .. they are just 1 niggle away from bowling 125 to 135 k.

 

Moreover, he was rarely crossing 136 k in the longer formats, which he is also playing and not just T20Is. 

I am not picking him in longer formats..jsut asked for T20 only..he wont be able to sustain pace that long for 50 overs\Tests..if he has 138-140kph and have accuracy and good variations including yorkers..he may play supporting role to Bumrah and co at some point..

[MediumPacer]

5 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

I am not picking him in longer formats..jsut asked for T20 only..he wont be able to sustain pace that long for 50 overs\Tests..if he has 138-140kph and have accuracy and good variations including yorkers..he may play supporting role to Bumrah and co at some point..

Yorkers don't last that long,we have seen likes of kaul, nattu,arshdeep before

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

You are exaggerating it,bumrah too has operated at a lower pace in tests

 

Everyone operates at lower pace in tests sometimes, especially in long innings involving  20+ overs by a pacer. In such situations, Mukesh comes down to the 120s in FC. 

 

But most of the time Bumrah's test match speeds are very similar to his T20 speeds. Infact, in his quickest years, of 2017 to 2019, Bumrah's quickest spells were in test matches.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

3 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

I am not picking him in longer formats..jsut asked for T20 only..he wont be able to sustain pace that long for 50 overs\Tests..if he has 138-140kph and have accuracy and good variations including yorkers..he may play supporting role to Bumrah and co at some point..

He is not a 138-140kph pacer...even Bhuvi has bowled 144k in T20's but that's not his natural pace.

 

Last year everyone here (including me) was going ga ga over Arshdeep's yorkers and pin point accuracy in death while hitting 140k..one year down the line & Arshdeep is just spraying the ball everywhere.

 

Mukesh in SMAT was going for 30 runs in 2 overs, 32 runs in 3 overs...so it's not like he has magically found a mojo. He got his yorkers right and the full tosses Tim David missed to strike...but based on one game we can't decide if he can partner Bumrah as main bowler. Tyagi has defended 4 runs in an IPL by hitting pin point yorkers...everyday isn't the same. You have to see in multiple situations & scenarios.

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

I am not picking him in longer formats..jsut asked for T20 only..he wont be able to sustain pace that long for 50 overs\Tests..if he has 138-140kph and have accuracy and good variations including yorkers..he may play supporting role to Bumrah and co at some point..

 

In India, once a player becomes a part of the inner coterie, he plays all or multiple formats unless he is a gross LOI misfit like Pujara. 

 

Mukesh was chosen for all formats earlier this year. 

[MediumPacer]

31 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Everyone operates at lower pace in tests sometimes, especially in long innings involving  20+ overs by a pacer. In such situations, Mukesh comes down to the 120s in FC. 

 

But most of the time Bumrah's test match speeds are very similar to his T20 speeds. Infact, in his quickest years, of 2017 to 2019, Bumrah's quickest spells were in test matches.

 

 

Even bumrah wasn't that quick in ranji.In tests, bumrah has bowled around 130k many times and then gets injured as well.

 

Point is 130-140 isn't slow, it's normal pace.

 

 

[MediumPacer]

40 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Everyone operates at lower pace in tests sometimes, especially in long innings involving  20+ overs by a pacer. In such situations, Mukesh comes down to the 120s in FC. 

 

But most of the time Bumrah's test match speeds are very similar to his T20 speeds. Infact, in his quickest years, of 2017 to 2019, Bumrah's quickest spells were in test matches.

 

 

It's funny you mention mukesh bowls 120 in fc but then this thread is replete with you saying domestic speedometers are slower.

[singhvivek141]

2 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Even bumrah wasn't that quick in ranji.In tests, bumrah has bowled around 130k many times and then gets injured as well.

 

Point is 130-140 isn't slow, it's normal pace.

Mukesh isn't a 140 bowler...we can skip that from discussion. In the Irani Trophy of 2022 he was bowling 123-130, Sen was bowling 135-145 & Umran in 140-152.

 

Likes of Bhuvi, RP Singh has bowled 144k multiple times..but they are mostly a 125-135 bowler..in Tests I have also seen Bhuvi bowling 110-120k spell against England in 2014 series.

 

Bumrah is 135-145 in tests..surely, he can go below that as well. But that's the general range under which he operates, and unlike other bowlers his pace don't drop as format changes. There are multiple spells in Tests which both Bumrah & Shami were operating 140+ even on the last overs of 3rd session. 

[MediumPacer]

13 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Mukesh isn't a 140 bowler...we can skip that from discussion. In the Irani Trophy of 2022 he was bowling 123-130, Sen was bowling 135-145 & Umran in 140-152.

 

Likes of Bhuvi, RP Singh has bowled 144k multiple times..but they are mostly a 125-135 bowler..in Tests I have also seen Bhuvi bowling 110-120k spell against England in 2014 series.

 

Bumrah is 135-145 in tests..surely, he can go below that as well. But that's the general range under which he operates, and unlike other bowlers his pace don't drop as format changes. There are multiple spells in Tests which both Bumrah & Shami were operating 140+ even on the last overs of 3rd session. 

Mukesh clocked high 130s in tests,it comes from fitness ,rhythm and intent.He isn't quick but nor is he that slow.Bhuvi,rp could also bowl quicker than expected but indian pacers generally are a bit flat.

Edited November 24, 2023 by MediumPacer

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Even bumrah wasn't that quick in ranji.

 

I remember watching a Ranji match in 2015 probably. There was this new pacer who bowled all 6 balls at 140 k+in one over. Saw that his name was Bumrah. Obviously he bowled 130s in Ranji too but he could crank it up even then

 

 

16 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

 

In tests, bumrah has bowled around 130k many times and then gets injured as well.

 

Bumrah bowls a significant % of deliveries in the 140 k to 145 k / 147 k range in tests.  

 

130 k is very rare.  

 

16 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Point is 130-140 isn't slow, it's normal pace.

 

Even 135 k to 145 k is not that quick. It is bare minimum quick speed.  

 

130 k to 140 k is slow speed on the slower decks of Asia and the WI. May work on fast bouncy pitches if pacer is tall and bouncy. 

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

It's funny you mention mukesh bowls 120 in fc but then this thread is replete with you saying domestic speedometers are slower.

 

Of course domestic speed guns register lower speeds in FC and List A.

 

Which is why I mentioned FC for 120s by Mukesh.

 

He drops down to early 120s in long innings in FC which means it will be mid 120s in tests. 

 

 

[MediumPacer]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I remember watching a Ranji match in 2015 probably. There was this new pacer who bowled all 6 balls at 140 k+in one over. Saw that his name was Bumrah. Obviously he bowled 130s in Ranji too but he could crank it up even then

 

 

 

Bumrah bowls a significant % of deliveries in the 140 k to 145 k / 147 k range in tests.  

 

130 k is very rare.  

 

 

Even 135 k to 145 k is not that quick. It is bare minimum quick speed.  

 

130 k to 140 k is slow speed on the slower decks of Asia and the WI. May work on fast bouncy pitches if pacer is tall and bouncy. 

This thread is from 2014,it was never posted here,I doubt you would have not posted.

 

Bumrah's avg speed was under 140 in tests ,that too when he was at his quickest.

 

Great test pacers like McGrath ,Pollock,vaas,philander,anderson have all operated under 135-145.

 

In india we need spinners in test,pacers aren't that important.