Guest HariSampath Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Spot on Chandan. Methinks HS is just arguing for the sake of it .... :P No, bb, I am just putting out a very valid point based on facts that Sachin averages less than 40 in 4-5 countries , like Aus, SA etc, so naturally one wonders why he has failed in ODIs in those countries when he has a very good record in tests against the same countries there. When we are analysing a batsman like Sachin Tendulkar who has scored tons of runs and has a certain distinctive pattern of failure then it is inevitable that it will come up for analysis. Another thing that has been closely scrutinised is his dismal second innings record, his inability to finish games off , his propensity to fail in seriously crunch situations etc. All these are very valid points and have been debated in the cricketing world for years now, but that doesnt mean I am taking away anything from sachin or SRT bashing, as it is well known even in thesed boards that I am a Sachin fan and also he is certainly one of my alltime 5 favorite cricketers. At the same time, these points are valid too, and here is a chance for Sachin to set right a missing record in his career : A great ODI series in Australia.
bunny Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Bump.... Will the self-confessed Ponting fan now criticize Ponting (in this thread) :-) I think it's a fallacy to compare SRT with Ponting. They never played against a similar set of bowlers (not when both where in their prime). On the other hand if you compare SRT with Steve Waugh (between 92-99) there's nothing between them. SRT had a wonderful record against Aus but Waugh had a better record against SA (and Pak to an extent). One would have to say that Steve Waugh's toughness was making up for the lack of technique. And RD's technique and concentration against fast bowling was getting him runs especially on pitches outside the subcontinent. I do believe that SRT has as good a technique (if not better) against pace bowling as RD and clearly he dominates spin bowling. If SRT had shown the concentration and maturity he is showing now he would have been the undisputable king of Test cricket. I do believe that SRT has shown remarkable maturity in the last year. And the next 2 years might be his best ever. It's a pity that RD has lost form completely. Otherwise with a much improved bowling attack we would be killing test countries like SA, Pak, Eng, SL, ....
Guest HariSampath Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Sachin has been doing well last 2-3 test series, but he doesnt seem to play as attacking as before, like in the 1990s, but that is only to be expected as reflexes will go down with age and he is not getting younger. Today he is playing more out of experience and technique modified to suit the pitches he is batting on. Earlier he never used too much technique modification and his approach used to be similar everywhere as he was at his peak of reflexes, but in recent seasons he does tend to play in a certain manner by playing or not playing certain strokes . But most importantly he is doing extremely well in both forms of the game, and looks good for at least one more season of ODIs minimum, and at least 2 more seasons of tests.
coffee_rules Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 As Ponting seems to be attacking more in this series and is failing regularly. I think his reflexes are also dwindling. He has to play with experience like Dravid/Tenulkar to get runs for his team. Still it is tough to see him score big 200s like he used to do couple of years ago.
Guest HariSampath Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 ^ I dont think Ponting's reflexes are down now, maybe in another 2 years , but even if he is failing now, his style hasnt changed over last 2-3 years, it is still the same attacking mode in both forms of the game...but yes, the time will come when he too will have to mellow down and play from experience and modify his game, but that is quite a while away. Just that Sachin has already come to that stage, and I personally feel that RD is playing in his last year of tests too, and will retire soon.
riya Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 A great analysis there by Hari . Yes ,for all those statistics ,Tendulkar is a huge underachiver in Test matches .Not a single inning ,equivalent to one that Laxman in calcutta ,Dravid in Adelaide and Rawalpindi .I never understand why he is been rated so high ,agreed he got all the techniques and ability in a batsman and more .But still that innings which i am waiting for which can be classified as a ''dream innings'' from him .
Guest HariSampath Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 A great analysis there by Hari . Yes ' date='for all those statistics ,[b']Tendulkar is a huge underachiver in Test matches .Not a single inning ,equivalent to one that Laxman in calcutta ,Dravid in Adelaide and Rawalpindi .I never understand why he is been rated so high ,agreed he got all the techniques and ability in a batsman and more .But still that innings which i am waiting for which can be classified as a ''dream innings'' from him . hold on. I disagree with the sweeping classification of Sachin as an underachiever. I am one who thinks he is a "great achiever who has selectively underachieved"...meaning all those things I had mentioned earlier ( non finisher, 2nd inngs, relatively failed in ODIs in Aus , SAF etc)...but Sachin is NO MEANS overrated...he is a classic great batter and a champion cricketer...who can do LOTS better and I think he will.
Mr. Wicket Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Spot on Chandan. Methinks HS is just arguing for the sake of it .... :P Nope, these sorts of small ODI statistics are vital. After all, shouldn't we be denigrating Malcolm Marshall as a real underachiever in cricket as his ODI average against Sri Lanka was only 69 runs/wicket in 6 games? And Viv Richards only averaged 16 against Zimbabwe - which obviously lessens his worth as a batsman. PS: Tendulkar has never been part of a 100+ opening stand in tests - what does that say about him? :P
Anakin Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Nope, these sorts of small ODI statistics are vital. After all, shouldn't we be denigrating Malcolm Marshall as a real underachiever in cricket as his ODI average against Sri Lanka was only 69 runs/wicket in 6 games? And Viv Richards only averaged 16 against Zimbabwe - which obviously lessens his worth as a batsman. PS: Tendulkar has never been part of a 100+ opening stand in tests - what does that say about him? :P:hysterical::hysterical:
Mr. Wicket Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Sheesh, you're behaving like a blind worshipper now... :haha:
riya Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 hold on. I disagree with the sweeping classification of Sachin as an underachiever. I am one who thinks he is a "great achiever who has selectively underachieved"...meaning all those things I had mentioned earlier ( non finisher' date=' 2nd inngs, relatively failed in ODIs in Aus , SAF etc)...but Sachin is NO MEANS overrated...he is a classic great batter and a champion cricketer[b']...who can do LOTS better and I think he will. Thats exactly i meant by ''underachiver '' .From a batsman of his ability i expect more .And the amount of praise pouring on him by the fans (including me),i expect more brilliance .
Ram Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Thats exactly i meant by ''underachiver '' .From a batsman of his ability i expect more .And the amount of praise pouring on him by the fans (including me)' date='i expect more brilliance .[/quote'] Riya ji, Could you please please put in a bit more effort and get your punctuation right ? Your full-stops in at the beginning of every sentence seem to really confuse things for me, like I know I am reading proper english, but its not the way its meant to be. After all, how hard could it be, to first type the full-stop and then press space ? This is a a very polite request, hope you dont take offense.
CC1981 Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 I can't be ar$ed to read through so much drivel, but my take on the batsmen from 1990-present, in both forms of the game, marked out of 100, are : Tests: 1. Tendulkar 97 2. Lara 94 3. Steve Waugh 92 4. Dravid 89 5. Ponting 88 6. Kallis 86 7. Gilly 85 8. Sanga 84 9. Mahela 82 10.Inzy 81 ODIs: 1. Tendulkar 99 2. Bevan 95 3. Ponting 93 4. Lara 92 5. Gilly 91 6. Kallis 89 7. Ganguly 88 8. Symonds 86 9. Dravid 84 10. Inzy 82
BongaSamaj2 Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 harisampath, it would be better if u stop analysing tendulkar. your analysing methods are quite unique. it can make a normal guy go deaf and dumb
MundaPakistani Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 I can't be ar to read through so much drivel, but my take on the batsmen from 1990-present, in both forms of the game, marked out of 100, are : Tests: 1. Tendulkar 97 2. Lara 94 3. Steve Waugh 92 4. Dravid 89 5. Ponting 88 6. Kallis 86 7. Gilly 85 8. Sanga 84 9. Mahela 82 10.Inzy 81 ODIs: 1. Tendulkar 99 2. Bevan 95 3. Ponting 93 4. Lara 92 5. Gilly 91 6. Kallis 89 7. Ganguly 88 8. Symonds 86 9. Dravid 84 10. Inzy 82 which formula did you use?
Cricketics Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 which formula did you use? his rating is based on only those games which his roger cable has shown since 1998
MundaPakistani Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Sachin is still the best ODI batsman of this era for mine but i am not so sure about tests Sachin's most valuable innings - http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63660.html - http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63794.html http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63921.html http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63535.html Some other good ones were his 122 against ENG, 169 against SA and 136 against PAK. Now if you look at these innings and compare it with some of Lara's finest and you would have to say that Lara has played a lot more valuable innings than SRT.
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