Naman Ojha vs Wriddhiman Saha

[Precambrian]

Saha is a poor batsman. He will be a walking wicket in Australia.

It's not as if our WK batsmen have been Gilchrists down under. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=overall;host=2;keeper=1;orderby=runs;spanmin1=1+Jan+1999;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting If Saha averages above 19, he'd done well than the avg Indian keeper has done downunder in the last 20 yrs. And I think he's got the potential to average atleast 30. If he does that that's pretty much gold. Plus a good keeper can also win matches with excellent display behind the stumps. Saha has appeared to be a much superior keeper to Dhoni, esp to pace bowlers.

[bowl_out]

^^ Agree. Even last time we toured, the one match that he played, he seemed pretty confident and composed, though didn't score big... As long he takes all catches, stumpings that come his way, and makes a decent 30-40 with the bat, I am happy... I'm sure he will do better than that

[kubrickian]

How can you say he is a poor batsman?

Based on what I have seen of him. He is a good keeper to pacers though. Can dive around a bit and generally a safe catcher.

[Crookbond]

It's not as if our WK batsmen have been Gilchrists down under. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=overall;host=2;keeper=1;orderby=runs;spanmin1=1+Jan+1999;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting If Saha averages above 19, he'd done well than the avg Indian keeper has done downunder in the last 20 yrs. And I think he's got the potential to average atleast 30. If he does that that's pretty much gold. Plus a good keeper can also win matches with excellent display behind the stumps. Saha has appeared to be a much superior keeper to Dhoni, esp to pace bowlers.

I think this obsession with stats is unhealthy. Saha is a good keeper and a good batsman. It is not Saha's average that will count but the important knocks that he plays in the series at different times. This too much reverse engineering looking at Statsguru is a bit OTT - personal opinion and no offense meant.

[Precambrian]

I think this obsession with stats is unhealthy. Saha is a good keeper and a good batsman. It is not Saha's average that will count but the important knocks that he plays in the series at different times. This too much reverse engineering looking at Statsguru is a bit OTT - personal opinion and no offense meant.

Can't help if you saw only the "stats" portion in it, ignoring the fact that it is an opinion which "also" uses statistics for support. I am not sure then who is the one who is obsessed with stats here.

[Precambrian]

I think this obsession with stats is unhealthy. Saha is a good keeper and a good batsman. It is not Saha's average that will count but the important knocks that he plays in the series at different times. This too much reverse engineering looking at Statsguru is a bit OTT - personal opinion and no offense meant.

To add to my post above, I do agree with your post and if you think a bit deeper, my argument and yours are not that mutually exclusive either.

[Crookbond]

Can't help if you saw only the "stats" portion in it' date=' ignoring the fact that it is an opinion which "also" uses statistics for support. I am not sure then who is the one who is obsessed with stats here.[/quote'] I thought you used past WK averages to show Saha's future worth potentially. My issue was looking at the "past averages" as a build up to your opinion and not the opinion in itself. I think the opinion stands w/o looking at past averages.

[Precambrian]

I thought you used past WK averages to show Saha's future worth potentially. My issue was looking at the "past averages" as a build up to your opinion and not the opinion in itself. I think the opinion stands w/o looking at past averages.

I argued that there is not much worth thinking about the keeper's batting in Australia from a historical perspective, and used stats to support that. It is good to quantify an argument where-ever possible, isn't it? Otherwise all coaches/captains will have the same words, "Go out there and score runs, and of course take wickets, that's all there to it boys".

Of course, they are not. My point? Stats would mean zilch at the end of series. Saha could average 30 and not be convincing. Saha could also average 19 and play that one knock that seals a Test match and series for India.

If we win the series, then it wouldn't matter if Saha has averaged 9 across the series. But that also would mean some other guys would've to significantly punch above their weight to compensate for his poor performance. I think it's always good to diversify and spread risks than concentrate and rely on a few great performances to mask other non performances. I am not saying this is what always happen. In short : I'd prefer a team performance all through the series than a one off great performance by a few individuals.

[Crookbond]

I argued that there is not much worth thinking about the keeper's batting in Australia from a historical perspective, and used stats to support that. It is good to quantify an argument where-ever possible, isn't it? Otherwise all coaches/captains will have the same words, "Go out there and score runs, and of course take wickets, that's all there to it boys".

I now see where you come from and agree with you. I missed this point in the earlier post.

If we win the series, then it wouldn't matter if Saha has averaged 9 across the series. But that also would mean some other guys would've to significantly punch above their weight to compensate for his poor performance. I think it's always good to diversify and spread risks than concentrate and rely on a few great performances to mask other non performances. I am not saying this is what always happen. In short : I'd prefer a team performance all through the series than a one off great performance by a few individuals.

Fair enough.

[adi B]

i am expecting him to keep well and thats his primary job,regarding batting,i just hope he doesnt get out quickly,even 25-30 runs will be acknowledged if he indulges in an important 60-70 runs p'ship,putting price on ur wkt is the key to success.dont want to see quick collapses

[adi B]

ok,what happens if saha scores an important fifty and rescues india(somewhat) with dhoni fit for the second test?does he get dropped?

[Crookbond]

ok' date='what happens if saha scores an important fifty and rescues india(somewhat) with dhoni fit for the second test?does he get dropped?[/quote'] Yes

[Precambrian]

ok' date='what happens if saha scores an important fifty and rescues india(somewhat) with dhoni fit for the second test?does he get dropped?[/quote'] Haha of course yes. The funnier part will be if Saha scores a 100 and no one else does. Maybe then Dhoni will postpone his recovery from injury.

[kruiser]

Haha of course yes. The funnier part will be if Saha scores a 100 and no one else does. Maybe then Dhoni will postpone his recovery from injury.

In that case Saha will play as a Dinesh Kartik and MSD will keep.

[bowl_out]

In that case Saha will play as a Dinesh Kartik and MSD will keep.

And MSD will suddenly decide mid-way through the innings to hand over the gloves to Saha and bowl a few overs himself :giggle: Of course, Australia's score would be 520/3 then...

[Texan]

Do we still have an argument for "keeper should only keep, not bat"??

[Texan]

I am finding it a little funny how many people argued for Saha for his superior keeping skills. Terrible match as a keeper and equally bad as a batsman.

[tweaker]

Who had taken the decision that Ojha will not make debut inspite of Dhoni 's injury.I think If Ojha had played that matchthis whole series would have been different

[Vijy]

Ojha is a bad keeper - he'd have fluffed even more chances than Saha most likely. We should just bat Ashwin and Bhuvi at 7 and 8, and pick the best keeper in the country, regardless of his batting ability.

[shortbread]

Trust me guys for the next few years India will be playing a WK merry go round!! Very much like the 90s and early 2000s when the likes of Prasad, Saba Karim, Dahiya, Dighe, Dasgupta, Parthiv, Ratra...etc...etc....people will come and go. Its will be musical chairs with the likes of Saha, Ohja, DK, Parthiv etc...most of these guys are well into their 30s as well. The smart thing for India to do is to invest in a very young keeper, only if!!