10 years of MS Dhoni - Debate thread

[Raghav_12]

Bhajji accomplished more as a player than MS Dhoni? A captain who won 2 WC's and 1 Champions Trophy? A batsman who is hailed as one of the greatest in ODI's? A batsman who has 3rd best avg in ODI's ever? Bhajji accomplished more than Yuvraj Singh? A player who won WC man of the tournament? Don't tell this to anyone outside ICF in real life. People will either laugh at you or will think you are insane. Here is how I rate the players: Grade 1 - Sachin, Gavaskar, Dravid* Grade 1.5 - Kohli*, Dhoni, Kapil, Ganguly, Kumble Grade 2 - Sehwag, Yuvi, Srinath, Azhar Grade 2.5 - Zaheer, Bhajji, Rohit Sharma* *Dravid/Kohli - They will swap places at the end of Kohli's career if he keeps on performing like he is doing in ODI's. *Rohit Sharma - Though rubbish, his dual double centuries can't be ignored. Please note, I have not included Vengsarkar and other oldies whom I have not seen play.

Dhoni can't be above grade 2 in any case. Kumble and Kapil decidedly have been much better than Dhoni as cricketer. Also Kohli as of now can't be talked in same league as Kapil and Kumble. He may be on his way though. In overall package I would rate Yuvi slightly ahead of Dhoni. Whatever are counted as success of Dhoni, Yuvi triumphed Dhoni on those very tournaments or series. 1. Dhoni helped India win ODI series in Pakistan in 2006. Agree that was terrific and we were chasing scored around 300 with such ease. Dhoni was very good. But then Yuvi was even better. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/pakvind/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=2693;type=series 2. Dhoni captained India to W T20. Yes, he happened to be there as captain. Otherwise it was Yuvraj who was MOTT. Can you forget those six sixes or assault on Australia. 3. Dhoni captained Indian to WC 11. Yes, he again happened to be there as captain, just Shastri has managed to be in commentary box for all the recent successes of India. But it was Yuvraj who was real hero and man of the match. No way Dhoni can be ahead of Yuvi. On the other side, Yuvi didn't conspire to Srini to sabotage Indian cricket and didn't lie in front of judicial panel to save a crook.

[Sidhoni]

Also will add Tier 4.5 V.Kohli,Ishant Sharma Tier 5 Rohit,Irfan Pathan,Ashwin,V.Prasad,M.Prabhakar

Kohli and Ishant on same level :cantstop: Ok now I know for sure you are not to be taken seriously

[Sidhoni]

Just to mention, fitness is also an important criteria for judging sportspersons. The first test he missed in this series is only 2nd/3rd instance IIRC in 10 years where he has missed out due to injury.

[Raghav_12]

Just to mention' date=' fitness is also an important criteria for judging sportspersons. The first test he missed is only 2nd/3rd instance IIRC in 10 years where he has missed out due to injury.[/quote'] I have also never missed any test match because of fitness issue. I always missed on competency issue. Put me in grade 1.25. :orderorder:

[maniac]

Kohli and Ishant on same level :cantstop: Ok now I know for sure you are not to be taken seriously

Kohli,Ishant,Rohit,Ashwin etc have still technically begun their careers.....Rohit has 2 200's in ODI's,Kohli has the fastest 5000 runs again in ODI's but till they accomplish anything in tests I will rate them low...they only make it because of their LOI exploits. Ishant on the other hand has had some mercurial test performances despite his much debated and ridiculed test stats that's why he is in that tier.

[maniac]

Just to mention' date=' fitness is also an important criteria for judging sportspersons. The first test he missed in this series is only 2nd/3rd instance IIRC in 10 years where he has missed out due to injury.[/quote'] Due to which we almost pulled off an impssoible win :cantstop:

[bulbul]

Just to mention' date=' fitness is also an important criteria for judging sportspersons. The first test he missed in this series is only 2nd/3rd instance IIRC in 10 years where he has missed out due to injury.[/quote'] One more Lahori logic to measure greatness :hysterical:

[Austin 3:!6]

Kohli already greater than Kumble, Kapil as a player according to me. 21 centuries in 4 years is no joke. If he retires tomorrow he will remain in grade 1.5 and will feature in all time Indian ODI XI anyday. Touchwood if he keeps on playing the way he is doing now, he will be equal to SRT when he retires. SRT will be little ahead in tests and Kohli will be in ODI's. EDIT - Just saw Maniac put Kohli and Ishant on the same level :hysterical:

[Sidhoni]

Jeez you guys are just not fit enough to have a healthy debate with. No wonder ICF is such a rot these days and most good posters have left/visit rarely.

[bulbul]

Jeez you guys are just not fit enough to have a healthy debate with. No wonder ICF is such a rot these days and most good posters have left/visit rarely.

What healthy debate you are doing? in no debate Dhoni can be proven as Greatest Indian cricketer.

[jalebi_bhai]

My last post on this thread.......... This thread yesterday...... this thread today

[Raghav_12]

Due to which we almost pulled off an impssoible win :cantstop:

:hysterical::hysterical:

[Raghav_12]

Jeez you guys are just not fit enough to have a healthy debate with. No wonder ICF is such a rot these days and most good posters have left/visit rarely.

yeah.. we don't have Dhoni's fitness standards.

[Marut]

There are only so many nations playing cricket. If we consider NZ' date='SA,England, AUstralia tours are toughest.. then we shouldn't be playing cricket. We will be left with trouble ridden Windies, Bangladesh, Srilanka and Pakistan. 3 subcontinent sides. If you want easy tours you will have to keep touring Windies and Bangladesh. Even Lungan tour is not easy. We haven't won a series there in a while.[/quote'] Who mentioned about touring WI, Bang, SL etc endlessly? All other teams except India have mixed easy and difficult tours. Why not check out all the overseas tours undertaken by all international teams over the past four years? India - SA, WI, Eng, Aus, SA, NZ, Eng, Aus Aus - SL, SA, WI, Ind, Eng, SA Eng - Aus, SL, Ind, NZ, Aus NZ - Zimb, Aus, WI, Ind, SL, SA,Eng, Bang WI - Bang, Eng, Ind, NZ SL - Eng, SA, Aus, Bang, Pak - NZ, WI, Zimb, SL, SA, Zimb, SA - NZ, Eng, Aus It should be evident that India has been playing the most number of away games and against the toughest opposition, at a time when the team is in transition over the entire four year period - Dhoni, Ishant and Pujara are the only players who have survived all the four years since the SA tour in 2010. Ganguly with a much better and experienced team had considerable difficulty winning games abroad against top teams.

[Sidhoni]

What healthy debate you are doing? in no debate Dhoni can be proven as Greatest Indian cricketer.

You should consider taking some comprehension lessons. Point out to me one post where I have claimed that he is the greatest Indian cricketer as you say in your post. Just making up some statements when you have nothing left to troll about. No wonder you keep getting banned and then beg different members to try and get you back in.

[bulbul]

You should consider taking some comprehension lessons. Point out to me one post where I have claimed that he is the greatest Indian cricketer as you say in your post. Just making up some statements when you have nothing left to troll about. No wonder you keep getting banned and then beg different members to try and get you back in.

You are not the only one poster posting here, there are others as well who claimed Dhoni is greatest or very close to greatest Indian cricketer. Debates continue on that as well. You should stop being overly sensitive. ps : I guess last time I was banned long time back...I was not posting too much till recently though [not sure I was banned in my absence, may be for testing purpose :dontknow:)

[Marut]

Here is how i seriously classify Indian cricket greats Post 80'S Tier 1 Sachin,Sunny,Kapil Tier 1.5 Kumble,Dravid Tier 2 Laxman,Sehwag,Ganguly,Harbhajan Tier 3 Zaheer,Srinath,Vengasrkar,Azharuddin(if Matchfixing is not accounted for),Vishwanath Tier 3.5 Yuvraj,Dhoni Tier 4 Sir Aggy,Gambhir,Ravi Shastri,K.Srikkanth etc.

I would put Dravid in tier 1, Laxman in 1.5, Srinath in tier 2

[jalebi_bhai]

Jeez you guys are just not fit enough to have a healthy debate with. No wonder ICF is such a rot these days and most good posters have left/visit rarely.

Ok this is my final post on this thread.........real-sies....... I asked one simple thing of Dhoni fans in this thread.......I also explained why I asked so.......twice.......you asked me a few questions earlier......to which, I feel, I replied in a logical manner....... Ever since......Dhoni fans have been trying to shift the goal posts in any serious discussion on this thread.......in an earlier post.......you were saying that Dhoni's fitness should make him an ATG......what kind of topi logic is this? Greatness is measured by on-field achievements.......not by the number of jumping jacks a player can do...... Dhoni has his on-field achievements.......no one is denying that......but he also has his on-field failures and miseries.........he is human........treat him like one.......

[maniac]

Kohli already greater than Kumble, Kapil as a player according to me. 21 centuries in 4 years is no joke. If he retires tomorrow he will remain in grade 1.5 and will feature in all time Indian ODI XI anyday. Touchwood if he keeps on playing the way he is doing now, he will be equal to SRT when he retires. SRT will be little ahead in tests and Kohli will be in ODI's. EDIT - Just saw Maniac put Kohli and Ishant on the same level :hysterical:

Ishant was a man of the match in a test at lords and has 2 man of the series in test cricket....Again I am sure Kohli would swap a meaningless stat like fastest 5000 in ODI's in a heartbeat to acheive something like that. Ishant has an average that deservingly at times gets ridiculed-fair enough and that is why I have rated him at a 4.5 and not higher. Similarly Ashwin is one of the fastest 100 Test wickets for an Indian and 2 test centuries but again mediocre in LOI's and overseas tests,so atleast he is rated upto level 5. Rohit has had an average test career so far but as you said 2 200's in ODI and worlrecords are incredible feats that is why he even gets a rating. I am not Wisden or some cricket scholar,I am just a normal fan and that is my perspective and people have the right to debate my rating.

[Sidhoni]

No offense but it would really help if you avoid those ...... in between.