shortbread Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 His average in Sydney in ist innings was 77.6' date=' 2nd 76.1. Compare it with England where conditions are better for fast bowlers than Aus. His speed in 1st innings at Lords 78.6, 2nd innings 77.2. So, there is at a best a 1 mph difference, not huge and that might well be due to hot conditions in Aus. BK needs to fill in. He is too weak to be a fast bowler's load. He is underweight at least by 10 kilo, need to gain some muscles to sustain the rigors of test cricket. It will help him increase his pace too and become a better bowler. As a bowler who can bat, India need him but for that he will need to take a step further.[/quote'] Rkt, BK's strengths are limited. He will never be the A to Z fast bowling answer for India. He can swing the ball very well, both ways, in helpful conditions and can bowl to a set field. He can do long spells, very good in the outfield and a very good lower order bat. Asking BK to get heavier, stronger and faster is beating a dead horse. His pace might improve slightly but nothing drastic enough to worry batsmen. Worse he might loose his strength, i.e Swing and perhaps be prone to injuries. Weight gain isn't going to help the pounding his ankles take. The fact that he's light, nimble and comparatively accurate enables him to bowl longer spells and play the role of a work horse when needed. Beating about the bush about PK is pointless. He's effective in his role and does his bit in the 11 every time, with the ball and on a good day with the bat even. What needs sorting is the tripe we dish out at the other end. Agreed that we need pace, especially when the team is accommodating one trundler. But what India is sacrificing in the name of pace is tragic, accuracy, lack of game control, flow of runs etc... Dissecting BK is not the answer to India's pace bowling woes.
rkt.india Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Rkt, BK's strengths are limited. He will never be the A to Z fast bowling answer for India. He can swing the ball very well, both ways, in helpful conditions and can bowl to a set field. He can do long spells, very good in the outfield and a very good lower order bat. Asking BK to get heavier, stronger and faster is beating a dead horse. His pace might improve slightly but nothing drastic enough to worry batsmen. Worse he might loose his strength, i.e Swing and perhaps be prone to injuries. Weight gain isn't going to help the pounding his ankles take. The fact that he's light, nimble and comparatively accurate enables him to bowl longer spells and play the role of a work horse when needed. Beating about the bush about PK is pointless. He's effective in his role and does his bit in the 11 every time, with the ball and on a good day with the bat even. What needs sorting is the tripe we dish out at the other end. Agreed that we need pace, especially when the team is accommodating one trundler. But what India is sacrificing in the name of pace is tragic, accuracy, lack of game control, flow of runs etc... Dissecting BK is not the answer to India's pace bowling woes. BK is similar to our other pace prospects. He is no better than others. He is incomplete too like others. He too isn't the answer of our pace bowling woes if he stays like he is at present. If we are expecting others to improve on accuracy. We must expect him to gain pace too. If he can bowl around 135, not asking him to start bowling in 140s. 135 is not a big ask. Every test playing nation wants their bowler to at least bowl there. Australia dropped Siddle due to his lack of pace. He was still accurate but dropped in pace.
G_B_ Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Test matches ---- Umesh, Bhuvi and Shami have all played 12 tests so far Wickets -- Shami 47 from 12 tests @ 3.92 per test. Umesh 43 from 12 tests @ 3. 60 per test. Bhuvi 29 from 12 tests @ 2.40 per test. Averages-- Shami 36.16 Umesh 36.90 Bhuvi. 35.00 Strike rates -- Shami 57 Umesh. 51 BK. 66 Shami is the best wicket taker and Bhuvi is the worst so far. Inspite of taking so few wickets Bhuvi has a marginally better average. Proves that he is the most economical. Umesh takes the fewest number of balls to take a wicket, only 51 which is good. Bhuvi takes the most number of deliveries..66 which is not good. All their averages are bad. given the fact that BK is a handier bat and fielder i feel he has the edge over both Shami and Umesh. Bhuvi Shami Umesh thats how i rank them
rkt.india Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 given the fact that BK is a handier bat and fielder i feel he has the edge over both Shami and Umesh. Bhuvi Shami Umesh thats how i rank them Batting is secondary. First, they need to do well in bowling.
express bowling Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 given the fact that BK is a handier bat and fielder i feel he has the edge over both Shami and Umesh. Bhuvi Shami Umesh thats how i rank them How do you rank them as bowlers and what logic ?
G_B_ Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 the thing is there is not that much difference in their respective strike rates and averages in the test arena. Bhuvi bowled extremely well in India in our sole victory at lords. A lot of Shami's wickets are from when the Windies last toured India on his home ground. In test cricket the economy now a days matters as well. India were on the back foot in Aus by the nature in which Aus accumulated those runs.
express bowling Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 the thing is there is not that much difference in their respective strike rates and averages in the test arena. Bhuvi bowled extremely well in India in our sole victory at lords. A lot of Shami's wickets are from when the Windies last toured India on his home ground. In test cricket the economy now a days matters as well. India were on the back foot in Aus by the nature in which Aus accumulated those runs. Their averages are similar but there is a huge difference in their strike rates really. Umesh 51, Shami 57 and Bhuvi 66. Their wickets per test are not similar either. Bhuvi has only 2.4 per test compared to 3.92 by Shami and 3.6 by Yadav. Shami has got 18 more wickets than Bhuvi after playing the same number of 12 test matches. Umesh has 14 more. These are not marginally better numbers. On the other hand economy is very important too, especially because many of our pacers are expensive. Bhuvi is the most economical by a margin. Also, he does well in England etc where there is swing. You can't put Bhuvi above the other pacers really. He is much better in terms of economy but comes a distant third when we are discussing wickets.
rkt.india Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 the thing is there is not that much difference in their respective strike rates and averages in the test arena. Bhuvi bowled extremely well in India in our sole victory at lords. A lot of Shami's wickets are from when the Windies last toured India on his home ground. In test cricket the economy now a days matters as well. India were on the back foot in Aus by the nature in which Aus accumulated those runs. BK wasnt really economical in the match he played, went for 4 rpo.
CSK Fan Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 BK wasnt really economical in the match he played' date=' went for 4 rpo.[/quote'] Second innings when they were blindly slogging. unlike Umesh and Shami whoo were bowling genuine bad balls
CSK Fan Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 In other tests it has to be a case by case decision based on the form of other bowlers, the venue and team composition. How will he learn bowling in difficult conditions if he never gets a chance? Maybe this is why our bowlers never pick up new skills because we brand them as limited and then never let them grow? Should batting also be chosen depending on venues only? Wicket-keepers too?
rkt.india Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Second innings when they were blindly slogging. unlike Umesh and Shami whoo were bowling genuine bad balls bowled 8 overs and went for 46 almost 6 rpo marginally higher than Shami. Umesh was rank bad and has been criticized heavily for that.
rkt.india Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 How will he learn bowling in difficult conditions if he never gets a chance? Maybe this is why our bowlers never pick up new skills because we brand them as limited and then never let them grow? Should batting also be chosen depending on venues only? Wicket-keepers too? We all want him in team with his skills but with that 76-77 mph, he is going to struggle even if he is very accurate. He too needs to improve like other young bowlers of this group. They all are lacking one thing or the other. First issue with him is he is underweight for his height and being a fast bowler, he needs to gain some muscles which will help him gain pace and get better stamina. This is what he needs to work on. Other needs to work on their accuracy.
express bowling Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 How will he learn bowling in difficult conditions if he never gets a chance? Maybe this is why our bowlers never pick up new skills because we brand them as limited and then never let them grow? Should batting also be chosen depending on venues only? Wicket-keepers too? The primary objective is to choose the best team for our country for every match. None of our bowlers have the necessary qualities to succeed everywhere. They are not complete bowlers yet. There are 5 or 6 pacers in contention... none of them look very good...all have severe limitations...there are only 2 or 3 slots. How can you play all of them ? If the question of learning arises then the other bowlers would have to be given that too. Rotation is the only answer. In conditions when he is not yet good, Bhuvi will play some matches , like he did in Sydney. Bhuvi has also played 6 tests in India. He will have a chance to learn from that. Regarding batsmen..we have 3 or 4 who look very good even now....although they are relatively new. They are all condition batsmen even today. The other 2 or 3 slots that are open do not have all-condition batters. We have to fill those slots based on venue also.
India-KXIP fan Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 What was his average in Sydney?I think 120k at best This! You don't get it people had he been bowling at 127k's rather than 120 he would have ran through Aus! :phehehe:
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