All time best ODI team

[gazza]

It all pretty much comes down to team dynamic, gilly might be less consistent but scores quicker, when all your other batsmen average mid 40s and up maybe you can afford to take a less consistent but quicker scoring gilly, otherwise you're pretty much just looking at tendulkar, amla and dilshan as your opener options, unless you makeshift an opener. His keeping also allows you to consider more options down the order, dhoni or sangakkara won't have to be picked so you could take another all rounder, then again you could just make de villiers keep.

[MCGGG]

Gilchrist very much the same slogger status in ODI's as players like Gayle' date='Warner, Gibbs, McCullum etc. Batting averages too low for a top order batsman to make a best ever world ODI side in my view. Agree with a poster above, Dilshan can be a very good choice. Excellent average, strike rate, fielder and a useful spinner. Very good.[/quote'] Stats don't always tell the full story, Gilchrist's fear factor for opposition teams was enormous, if you didn't get him early you were as good as gone, he's an ATG and IMO he's the first player picked. And Dhoni and Sanga weren't fit to lick his boot studs as a keeper.

[nic007]

Fear factor? With an average of 35 (as low as 27 against a team like SA)? Sure, any of those sloggers can take the game away from you if staying in too long (see Gayle, Gibbs, McCullum or whoever) but with such a relatively low average teams knew that on average they would get him sooner rather than later.

[nic007]

Gilchrist was all flashy looking as if he may take teams apart but look at that stats more closely. He has a strike rate of 97 (very high, I agree) but a master batsman like Amla for example has a strike rate of 90 (also high) and he just goes about his business like a good batsman should do (no slogging). So even in this scenario I will select a seriously good batsman like Amla who is going to put a lot of runs on the board for you at a rapid rate.

[BlueBee]

I don't see why Sehwag can't make it if Gilly can. Fear factor right?

[nic007]

Just to add a bit. Gilchrist will take 3 fewer balls to make 50 runs than Amla. A lowish average of 35 suggests that it will be a bit of a milestone for him to even get to 50 runs most of the time. Compare that to Amla who has an average of 56 and you are almost guaranteed that he will get 50 everytime he bats. Frankly, I reckon only scores beyond 50 will have a significant influence on a game. Even if Gilchrist gets an extremely rare 150, it will take him only 10 fewer balls than Amla.

[BlueBee]

Just to add a bit. Gilchrist will take 3 fewer balls to make 50 runs than Amla. A lowish average of 35 suggests that it will be a bit of a milestone for him to even get to 50 runs most of the time. Compare that to Amla who has an average of 56 and you are almost guaranteed that he will get 50 everytime he bats. Frankly' date= I reckon only scores beyond 50 will have a significant influence on a game. Even if Gilchrist gets an extremely rare 150, it will take him only 10 fewer balls than Amla.

WTF?!

[nic007]

One's perception how quick a batsman bats can be very misleading. I fell into this trap myself wnen I selected Hayden as my aggressive opener without checking his actual stats. In my mind Hayden could hit attacks to all corners of the park and he had done so in the games I remember. But look at his actual stats and he has a strike rate of only 79. Compare that to Amla's 90. Very misleading.

[midge]

I think we don't have much debate on what Yuvraj can or cannot do, as well as Ponting. Yes, Viv did play well in Asia, but even SC teams never had a legendary spinner in their ranks apart from Qadir. Do you REALLY think Indian / Pakistani / SL spinners of 80s were anywhere close to the quality of Murali / Saqlain / Kumble and Mushtaq Ahmed? Viv played 25 matches featuring Abdul Qadir, and his average drops to 37 in those matches! I do appriciate Pakistan was the second best team during Viv's time, and he averahes 31 against them. And it's Imran Khan and Qadir who dismissed him most of the time. Viv's play against spin, is amssively overrated, although he is a champion batsman. Assessing AB de Villiers is bit difficult TBH. We have not witnessed ABDV in full cry vs Murali at his height of his form. He only played 5 matches against SL with Murali and averaged 28 with the bat. It basically gives no idea of his capabilities. But I could be pretty sure that he will not have the freedom he shows in today's game against Muari and Saqlain who are simply wicket takers.

Completely agree, the SC spinners in those days were not as good, and his record against Pak is not very high. But, it happens with all the greats; there are one or two teams against whom their stats are not as good as their overall stats. Every great has an opponent who has his number. In Viv's case there were 2. But, lets be fair to him, if there was no quality spinner around, its not his fault. If it was an era of fast bowling greats and not spinners, then he didn't have much control over it. Just to give you an example, playing against Pak, Sachin has been dismissed on most occasions by Razzaq and Azhar Mahmood (6 times each). This when they had the two Ws, Saqlain, Mushtaq and Akhtar in their ranks. And, the fact that these two were medium pacers, doesn't bring us to the conclusion that he was not good against quicks. Its just that these two guys had his number. Against SA, his avg is below 36 when his overall avg. is close to 45, doesn't mean that S.Africans feared him less. Styen and Donald have said many times that Sachin was the best ever batsman that they bowled to. Further, Murali has got him 13 times, but still we don't say that Sachin was not good against spin. When two quality players battle against each other, both are going to have their moments of glory. So I guess, it will be unfair to conclude that Viv was not good against spinners, just because he didn't play Qadir well. As for AB, you rightly said there haven't been enough duals between him and Murali for us to come to any conclusion. Also agree with you, he would not have been as devastating against Murali and Saqlain as he is against the current lot, but I bet, he would have been still very-very good. And, that is nothing unusual, all great batsmen have slightly lesser stats against quality opponents, but that doesn't impact their greatness.

[midge]

Not really. Despite his mountain of runs and a commendable average, Sangakkara is not in the very top bracket for top order batting. Its the same reason why Dravid and Kallis tend not to figure in ODI alltime teams: they are simply too slow for top order batting in a best-11 scenario. The reason is simple: ODI batting lineups pretty much begin and end with Sachin as an opener, Viv as a #3 and one of Dhoni/Bevan as #6 (most sane people would choose Dhoni). That leaves 3 spots, 2 middle order and 1 opener. Sanga is not an opener. of the two middle order spots, Lara, Ponting and ABDV are ahead of Sanga/Dravid/Kallis. Pretty much because these guys score about the same # of runs at a much higher clip than Sanga/Dravid/Kallis. There is an argument for having an 'innings pacer' amongst the blasters like Viv,Dhoni etc. but reality is Sachin & Lara were both pretty much just as good at innings building as Dravid/Kallis/Sanga with better blasting skills.

Top notch analysis:two_thumbs_up:

[midge]

Any one considering TM Dilshan as opener? 163 matches as opener' date=' averaging 47.4 at SR of 89. Don't think many has better stats than him.[/quote'] There are only 11 spots and too many greats to fill them. Feel for him.

[midge]

TMD has a good record but not top of the list IMO- he didn't make those runs against very many great bowlers or on pitches where 250-275 were pars, like say Lara/Tendulkar/MEW. It is important to pick players who've been dominant against the top teams. i think its interesting how Sehwag and Gillchrist have virtually identical records in ODIs, with Sehwag playing 50 less or so but having to face better bowling.

"MEW" means?

[BeautifulGame]

I am surprised no one really mentions Symonds much in All time XI. He is probably the model ODI player.Great batsman destructive one of the best fielder and decent bowler as well

[nic007]

These strike rates are all relative most of the time. If one player takes 6 more balls to score 100 than another it really is not much of an issue. I'd rather go with a player with a higher batting average in this scenario. In fact, scoring a hundred in an ODI is still a relatively rare occurrence. Scoring 50 is a much more likely scenario in which case (in this example) batsman A will take 3 more balls to score a 50 than batsman B. The difference is almost neglectable.

[Marut]

Don't believe there is one-shoe-fits-all team. So I would have a different team composition for different conditions. Example: Green tracks: Sachin Gilchrist Richards Ponting AB devilliers Klusener Imran Akram Warne Holding Donald Bouncy tracks: Greenidge Hayden Richards Hussey AB devilliers Dhoni Kapil Warne McGrath Ambrose Garner Spin Tracks: Sachin Sehwag Zaheer Abbas Richards Lara Dhoni Imran Saqlain Murali McGrath Garner Flat tracks: Sachin Hayden Zaheer Abbas Richards AB devilliers Dhoni Kapil Saqlain Murali Waqar Donald

[nic007]

De Villiers is one of the best players of spin

[Detonator]

"MEW" means?

Mark Edward Waugh

[kirisatha96]

Jaysuriya Gilchrist Tendulkar Kallis AB DHONI Murali Warne Lee Wasim Mcgrath

[Muloghonto]

Sure, batting alone he has shown nothing to be picked over any other openers here. But he is easily the best fielder among openers and only challenge he gets from that aspect is from Jayasuriya. Other openers with higher averages are light years behind these two on the field. And he can bowl as well. There's nothing to suggest that Gilchrist played better bowlers than Shewag. Don't think Shewag even has a shout at the spot compared with Gilly as a whole package. The next player he has to compete against is Jaysuriya, once more is a full package with bat, ball, field and captaincy. Other than for similar batting prowess, Shewag is way behind as a player compared to Gilchrist and Jayasuriya. If it is important to pick players who dow ell against dominant sides, then selection of Richards falls flat on it's face. He only averages 30 against Pakistan, who was the best side he faced.

Jayasurya was nowhere in the same bracket as a batsman as Sehwag- he was a slightly better bowler and whole lot better fielder. As for TMD being the best fielder of the openers, i disagree. Mark Waugh is easily the best catcher amongst openers. For pure fielding skills, there are two names that are better than any other opener- Greenidge and Gibbs. As for Gilly offering more than Sehwag- that argument only holds if Dhoni is not in the side. If Dhoni is in the side, the case for Sehwag is actually stronger than Gilly. Lastly, Pakistan was NOT the best ODI side Viv faced for most of his career- it was Australia. Australia was a better outfit than Pakistan in ODIs from 74-86/87, after which Pakistan is a better side.

[Muloghonto]

Stats don't always tell the full story, Gilchrist's fear factor for opposition teams was enormous, if you didn't get him early you were as good as gone, he's an ATG and IMO he's the first player picked. And Dhoni and Sanga weren't fit to lick his boot studs as a keeper.

Sorry but no. Dhoni is a way better keeper against spin than Gilly. Gilly is no way the first player picked, Sachin, Viv and Wasim are all way, way ahead of Gilly in their value to an ODI XI.