Pravin Amre must rank as the most wronged player in Indian cricket

[Shivaji bhonsle]

Not many people talk about Praveen Kumar when discussing those who were wronged. Probably because he is considered a "trundler". In the few Tests he played' date=' he averaages 25 with the ball and was our stand-out bowler in England. In seaming conditions, he can be a handful.[/quote'] Either you have not seen or forgotten how poor he was in the Australian tour and in the Bangladesh tour. He was dropped because he lost swing and started bowling @ 110-115 k.

[diga]

not unlucky...just better competition he was one of those domestic champions who won't be gifted enough to be a success at the highest level. close but no cigar

true.. at the time Amre played between 91-94, there was Sachin/Azhar/Kambli/Manjrekar competing for middle order spots, of which only 3 could play and that was an era when we played 5 batsmen+5 bowlers.. the next season 1994-95 saw the emergence of Dravid/Ganguly/Laxman and Amre did not force his way back through domestic performances

[Desi Cartman]

I remember seeing him play few ODIs and he was very ordinary. Perhaps he was a better test player.

[diga]

^read somewhere that he had a first class avg of 80 when he debuted....

[G_B_]

He had his chances. He was backed to the hilt by mumbai. Problem was that he never worked too hard on his fitness. It cause him major issues. Btw he is related to Dhawal Kulkarni.

[G_B_]

I remember seeing him play few ODIs and he was very ordinary. Perhaps he was a better test player.

temperament.

[Raghav_12]

This guy may have felt wronged too.

He had pretty modern name for his time.

[Marut]

I think he got his due. Remember Amre wasting good starts repeatedly especially in ODIs. In the 90s, most teams did not field separate ODI and test teams, so Amre fell out of favour.

[kosingh]

His scores in tests were 103, 7, 11, 6, 12, 78, 57, 52*, 21, 21 Bold: In South Africa Underline: In India Italics: In Sri Lanka I'd say he got enough chances

[youngindia]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/bangladesh-v-india-2014/engine/match/744681.html But yes get your point.

not interested in that so called performance . I have already posted that it was a dubious result obtained on a garbage pitch and has zero credibility in my eyes. if icc were erase that match off the record, I would be the first to give my support. even accepting it as credible result on a hypothetical basis, guys like gaekwad,chauhan,surinder ,amre had their moments.amre infact saved a test match for india. but the point is these players are not going to meet the standards(both avg and matchwinning innings) for the long term.

[youngindia]

Sadly...in the 90s...Indian selectors generally favoured flair over grit. His test century in South Africa against Donald and co. ' date=' was amazing. .[/quote'] grit is not going to make up for lack of talent. defensive batsmen can still have careers if they have things like technical mastery(dravid,gavaskar,mohinder) or solid methods(steve w and chandrapaul). when amre was playing, I was not out of school. Even then, I could see he was struggling to play a decent role in internationals. he will have the odd good match but struggle to get going in others. he was a partial fit but he never looked like a success infact the management kept him in the squad longer than warranted

[kosingh]

His was kind of like Rayadu

[AmreekanDesi]

Hemand Badani also comes to mind he averaged like 100 in his last 3-4 games

[express bowling]

grit is not going to make up for lack of talent. defensive batsmen can still have careers if they have things like technical mastery(dravid,gavaskar,mohinder) or solid methods(steve w and chandrapaul). when amre was playing, I was not out of school. Even then, I could see he was struggling to play a decent role in internationals. he will have the odd good match but struggle to get going in others. he was a partial fit but he never looked like a success infact the management kept him in the squad longer than warranted

Amre had the quality of playing good innings when the chips were down. During the time he played... India lacked such a batsman. Dravid and Laxman became such batsman later on. But they started playing about 3 years after Amre played his last test. You don't easily drop a player who can score a century against the fiery Donald and co. in South Africa in a test match. He might not play every test but he should be kept in the scheme of things. Amre never played a test outside the subcontinent after his first reasonably successful tour of South Africa. A good test batting lineup needs different kinds of batsmen to take care of different situations and conditions. In today's context, Rohit and Dhawan have been dubbed as big talents. Yet, the 'boring ' and plain Vijay, who was not considered to be a master of batting technique, batted much better than them in outside subcontinent tests. Talent is not the last word necessarily. If Amre were a batsmen in the 2010s, he would have been kept in the scheme of things for a much longer period.

[Marut]

Amre had the quality of playing good innings when the chips were down. During the time he played... India lacked such a batsman. Dravid and Laxman became such batsman later on. But they started playing about 3 years after Amre played his last test. You don't easily drop a player who can score a century against the fiery Donald and co. in South Africa in a test match. He might not play every test but he should be kept in the scheme of things. Amre never played a test outside the subcontinent after his first reasonably successful tour of South Africa. A good test batting lineup needs different kinds of batsmen to take care of different situations and conditions. In today's context, Rohit and Dhawan have been dubbed as big talents. Yet, the 'boring ' and plain Vijay, who was not considered to be a master of batting technique, batted much better than them in outside subcontinent tests. Talent is not the last word necessarily. If Amre were a batsmen in the 2010s, he would have been kept in the scheme of things for a much longer period.

In the 90s, the concept of having separate teams for ODIs and test matches wasn't very popular. Amre's test record was decent enough to deserve a longer run (say, 20 tests), but his ODI record was pretty mediocre. I used to get frustrated with Amre in ODIs, he would always get to 20s and early 30s and throw away his wicket. One decent knock in 37 matches was enough to shut down his career. I wonder whether anyone here remembers Atul Bedade who played around the same time as Amre. Bedade was a very destructive player who had a fiery strike rate of 86 - he wasn't consistent, but just got 13 matches to prove himself.

[express bowling]

In the 90s, the concept of having separate teams for ODIs and test matches wasn't very popular. Amre's test record was decent enough to deserve a longer run (say, 20 tests), but his ODI record was pretty mediocre. I used to get frustrated with Amre in ODIs, he would always get to 20s and early 30s and throw away his wicket. One decent knock in 37 matches was enough to shut down his career. I wonder whether anyone here remembers Atul Bedade who played around the same time as Amre. Bedade was a very destructive player who had a fiery strike rate of 86 - he wasn't consistent, but just got 13 matches to prove himself.

Bedade was a fierce hitter ...who could hit 4 s about 6 feet away from a deep fielder even with those "strokeless bats " of that era. He too deserved a few more matches. Had the potential to be a good ODI finisher.

[youngindia]

Amre had the quality of playing good innings when the chips were down. .

he had no no such quality...precisely why he failed. the requirements to play quality knocks in internationals are very high. unfortunately for guys like amre, they won't meet these requirements.

You don't easily drop a player who can score a century against the fiery Donald and co. in South Africa in a test match.

you are conveniently ignoring he failed in numerous other knocks and looked out of his depth. chauhan had a 97 vs Australia in Australia. dinesh mongia scored a 50 vs Australia in Malaysia. but these players were always going to struggle for the long term..they will struggle to average 40 and they will struggle to be consistent enbough there will always be some domestic champion who won't have that "extra layer" for international cricket.

good test batting lineup needs different kinds of batsmen to take care of different situations and conditions.

does not matter. defensive or offensive batsmen, there are talent levels and a player standard. some guys have the talent to average 50 or 45 or 40 even if they are defensive.you don't see me giving thumbs down to pujara or dravid Rahul dravid failed miserably in his first few ODI's and fans were calling for his head. I never questioned Rahul dravid. that was never the case with amre. I always knew he was up against it . amre failed because he didn't have the standard or the high quality to average 40. why do I give thumbs up to certain people and thumbs down to certain people like vinay ,mongia, sriram, binny ,chopra. because the successful ones have a certain high quality about their batsmanship in one area or the other that will make them competitive against international bowlers on a consistent basis. I give thumbs down to the likes of amre because I didn't see that quality. nothing less nothing more

In today's context, Rohit and Dhawan have been dubbed as big talents. Yet, the 'boring ' and plain Vijay, who was not considered to be a master of batting technique,

this is what I said after seeing Vijay in a challenger series in 2007 or somewhere "I am really impressed with vijay and parmar. vijay should be put into the India A side immediately if he hasn't. the only thing that remains to be seen is how he fares against international attacks."? don't go by the illiteracy in the forum(s). Vijay got a immediate thumbs up from the likes of steve Waugh as well in his debut test. high talent can be spotted.its just not an easy skill and not many are good at it [

[youngindia]

quote]Talent is not the last word necessarily.

[express bowling]

he had no no such quality...precisely why he failed. you are conveniently ignoring he failed in numerous other knocks and looked out of his depth. but these players were always going to struggle for the long term..they will struggle to average 40 and they will struggle to be consistent enboug amre failed because he didn't have the standard or the high quality to average 40. why do I give thumbs up to certain people and thumbs down to certain people like vinay ,mongia, sriram, binny ,chopra. [

Amre had an average 42.5 after 11 tests. So, no definitive fact is there to suggest that he is not a 40+ average player in tests ...or that he failed. He was simply dropped. He only struggled in ODIs...not in tests. I would not put him in the same league as Vinay, Sriram, Dinesh Mongia, Chopra etc.

[express bowling]

quote]Talent is not the last word necessarily.[ It is the last word on how far you can go.you can say performing to potential is a different matter and requires a lot of things to come together. but the upper limit of potential is pretty much the talent you have. if you have enough talent to only rank 15 or 50, that's where you going to end up max. you can only be no 1 if you have the talent for it Logically speaking high talent is required for success in international sports.its illogical to think otherwise.

We use the term " no talent " too loosely while talking about test players. Anybody who can average 42.5 after 11 tests has the basic minimum talent that is required to succeed in international cricket. Over and above that , a lot depends on temperament and the will to succeed. Amre might not be as good a player as someone with high talent and temperament but there weren't many such batters around when Amre was dropped.