Crookbond Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 I think Bhutan was totally a different case. The prince of Bhutan himself was leading the front if I remember correctly and it was mostly done by Bhutani army' date=' [b']this operation is unique because Myanmar army was not involved. Myanmar army was consulted and may have even been involved. There is no way to know the earlier operations too may have not had Myanmar army but that's how diplomacy works - 101. Jo dikhta hai, who hai nahi ... Central point - Chest thumping doesn't work for diplomacy.
Crookbond Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 but this is the first time that an Indian govt has openly accepted and also expressed their stance on such operations and it is a no mean feat. There is a risk of alienating diplomacy and co-operation for future surgical strikes in lapping up PR. Chest thumping does NOT work. In fact, the risk is already shown it's manifestation since we have MoS defense denying there was a "hot pursuit".
Raghav_12 Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Why people are happy about strike and why so much chest-bumping? All of this is meaningless if it doesn't lead to a peaceful situation. End objective is peace in Nagaland/Manipur. If this is acheived through these surgical strike, we can be happy about these strikes, otherwise these would be called absolute failure. When govt shows strike itself as an acheivement we know how hollow this govt. is. Such exercises were conducted earlier as well but without so much of chest-bumping. Probably those prime ministers didn't have real estate measuring 56 inches.
Khalpat Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Myanmar army was consulted and may have even been involved. There is no way to know the earlier operations too may have not had Myanmar army but that's how diplomacy works - 101. Jo dikhta hai, who hai nahi ... Central point - Chest thumping doesn't work for diplomacy. I agree with you but chest thumping is not the Central point it can be one of the ten side effects. Central Point: Kudos to the Army, it would have motivated them since we are sorrounded by hostile neighbours.
Raghav_12 Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 I think Bhutan was totally a different case. The prince of Bhutan himself was leading the front if I remember correctly and it was mostly done by Bhutani army' date=' this operation is unique because Myanmar army was not involved.[/quote'] I believe in this case also Myanmar was consulted and informed about India strike ( and that was the right to do as well). Main difference now is this govt. lives on PR and trying to get mileage on behalf of army.
Khalpat Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Why people are happy about strike and why so much chest-bumping? All of this is meaningless if it doesn't lead to a peaceful situation. While celebrating our win over Pakistan in World Cup we never thought whether we will win the World Cup or not. Point is , a terrorist organization killed our jawans and officers and we retalliated took the revenge. Yes, this is not the final goal but you cannot stop people from rejoicing small milestones. End objective is peace in Nagaland/Manipur. If this is acheived through these surgical strike, we can be happy about these strikes, otherwise these would be called absolute failure. When govt shows strike itself as an acheivement we know how hollow this govt. is. Such exercises were conducted earlier as well but without so much of chest-bumping. Probably those prime ministers didn't have real estate measuring 56 inches. Obviously the end objective is peace, no one can deny that. Everybody does the chest thumping it is so evident today because of presence of Social Media and so many media houses. We still do chest thumping of 1965 war, 1971 war did those wars solved any of our problems related to Pakistan? I do not recall any such incident in past where Indian Army personnel took revenge of their soldiers killing by crossing border please help me recall the 36 inches PM of that era.
Khalpat Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Minhaz Merchant @minhazmerchant 6h Only 1 country reacted to India's Myanmar strike. Not Bangladesh. Not Sri Lanka. Not Afghanistan. Not Nepal. Just Pak
seedhi Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Why people are happy about strike and why so much chest-bumping? All of this is meaningless if it doesn't lead to a peaceful situation. End objective is peace in Nagaland/Manipur. If this is acheived through these surgical strike, we can be happy about these strikes, otherwise these would be called absolute failure. When govt shows strike itself as an acheivement we know how hollow this govt. is. Such exercises were conducted earlier as well but without so much of chest-bumping. Probably those prime ministers didn't have real estate measuring 56 inches.Yes, we get that AAPtards are sad that the Indian army killed terrorists in Myanmar. It is understandable that AAPtards are aghast at the Indian army destroying terrorist camps which are used to launch attacks into India.
seedhi Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Indian army's Myanmar operation has unnerved pakistanis, congressis and AAPtards. A veritable triangle of evil.
Crookbond Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 I agree with you but chest thumping is not the Central point it can be one of the ten side effects. Central Point: Kudos to the Army' date=' it would have motivated them since we are sorrounded by hostile neighbours.[/quote'] The army is NOT the issue here - of course, kudos to them. Chest thumping will impede future such army operations.
Detonator Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 The army is NOT the issue here - of course' date=' kudos to them. Chest thumping will impede future such army operations.[/quote'] +1. Well said.
Crookbond Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Minhaz Merchant @minhazmerchant 6h Only 1 country reacted to India's Myanmar strike. Not Bangladesh. Not Sri Lanka. Not Afghanistan. Not Nepal. Just Pak Myanmar was the first one to react, not Pakistan.
Khalpat Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 The army is NOT the issue here - of course' date=' kudos to them. Chest thumping will impede future such army operations.[/quote'] Every action comes up with some negative points. Marketing this whole covert operation would boost the morale of army, intelligence and ofcourse the political establishment who can go full monty now. Just think of a scenario where person fighting the terrorist has this feeling that his establishment is with him. I have met many army officers as I reside in the society which is mostly an army officers society, recently the morale of our army was very low. The incident of cutting head of army man, daily casualities at border, casualities caused due to Naxalas. So this was needed but surely the ministers talking directly about it should have been avoided IMO.Yes of course there are negative points also as you have pointed out but this negative and positive things both are part and parcel of any administrative decisions. While giving credit to army we should also give credit to all the stake holders: intelligence: For providing exact info Dobhal: For coordinating this whole operation Modi: For giving go ahead boldly without consulting any minister as if this operation would have failed, opposition would have eaten him alive. Army: Ofcourse for implementation.
Crookbond Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Every action comes up with some negative points. Marketing this whole covert operation would boost the morale of army' date= intelligence and ofcourse the political establishment who can go full monty now. Just think of a scenario where person fighting the terrorist has this feeling that his establishment is with him. I have met many army officers as I reside in the society which is mostly an army officers society, recently the morale of our army was very low. The incident of cutting head of army man, daily casualities at border, casualities caused due to Naxalas. So this was needed but surely the ministers talking directly about it should have been avoided IMO.Yes of course there are negative points also as you have pointed out but this negative and positive things both are part and parcel of any administrative decisions. While giving credit to army we should also give credit to all the stake holders: intelligence: For providing exact info Dobhal: For coordinating this whole operation Modi: For giving go ahead boldly without consulting any minister as if this operation would have failed, opposition would have eaten him alive. Army: Ofcourse for implementation. :wall: Khalpat, seriously please!!!! You are creating your own set of issues and justifying it. Terrorist psychology and what not - all of it without proof. Army has been doing this for years and the only thing they need is sumdi political support to carry out surgical strikes. Up, over and above it was a PR lap up by Rathore which in the end led to a sour taste by coalition army Myanmar and MoS defense have taken back their statements. It's a PR disaster to say the least. The army doesn't need this, not at all - the army needs more diplomacy, not more PR. Diplomacy helps the army, PR doesn't help AT ALL.
Khalpat Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Bhai mujhe bus itna bana do what chest thumping has been done by Indian government. Only Rathore came in front of media who is not even a cabinet minister and added nothing which Indian army spokesperson has already said. Mr Modi was credited much before this one representative has said anything. First one to give credit to modi was Barkha Dutt. What wrong has government done actually.
amiret Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Business Standard Editorial : Union Minister of Information and Broadcasting Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore's tweet.....reflected a gauche immaturity unbecoming of a Union minister. As a former colonel, Mr Rathore should have known that Wednesday's operation is hardly a novel development. The Indian army and special forces have operated across borders to target militants several times before - including in Myanmar and even across the Line of Control in Pakistan. I wish i had the courage to take credit for the efforts of others and exploit their sacrifices for self-glorification , :(( But then i don't have the courage to claim to have a 56 inch chest like arnold schwarzenegger either.
Khalpat Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 I wish you had the courage of congratulating Indian pm, NSA, ib and army for carrying out brilliant operation and then would have criticized one off tweet by minister. But kudos you waited for 24 hrs with burnol and then tried to nit pick one odd mistakes and then criticized from the comfort of your bedroom oh man what wrong these jaahils did. Jitendra tomar would have handled this much better.
RedFever Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Yes' date=' we get that AAPtards are sad that the Indian army killed terrorists in Myanmar. It is understandable that AAPtards are aghast at the Indian army destroying terrorist camps which are used to launch attacks into India.[/quote'] Why will they not be sad, they are their future vote-bank
cowboysfan Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 The hand wringing on this matter is ridiculous, India had been cowed for so vlong that idiot junta don't know any better.you think any american cares that they violated paki border ? I wish India will make this a standing policy pnpaki border too,go after any and all terrorists.
Crookbond Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Bhai mujhe bus itna bana do what chest thumping has been done by Indian government. Only Rathore came in front of media who is not even a cabinet minister and added nothing which Indian army spokesperson has already said. Mr Modi was credited much before this one representative has said anything. First one to give credit to modi was Barkha Dutt. What wrong has government done actually. You must be kidding me. The Indian army said this - along the Indo- Myanmar border at two locations along the Nagaland and Manipur borders. It did not mention that India had crossed the border. In fact, the army has still not said anything to that effect. Rathore then went ahead and said that it involved crossing over the border. He even went ahead and talked about how it was a "hot pursuit due to Modi" and how "Western disturbances will also be dealt with" aka chest thumping. That is NOT how diplomacy works - army may have well crossed the Myanmar border but it does NOT mean that Myanmar would take kindly to our chest thumping. Also, Rathore is a MoS for I&B - there is no reason his statement should not be taken as government's stand. Check his tweet as well with the hashtags #56inchrocks - pure lapping up PR. Later in the day, MoS defence had to deny Rathore's statement and Myanmar too expressed disapproval while Pakistan got another chance to b!tch. TL;DR - PR disaster You are confusing credit with chest thumping and wading your d!ck in my face like #ManipurRevenge http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/rajyavardhan-rathore-strikes-too-message-to-pakistan-56inchrocks/ https://twitter.com/Ra_THORe/status/608266491520106496 India has made similar operations in the past and taken credit. Most likely, we have even crossed Myanmar's border and like this time we would have asked them for consent. But, unlike this time in the past we did NOT show our middle finger and make statements that would hurt sensibilities of people who we took help and would like to take help in the future! In addition, each and EVERY surgical strike has to have an approval of the PMO and MEA. There has to be careful diplomacy while engaging in such operations and to lap up PR for this is a futile exercise. It is a give-take relationship; Myanmar helps India and in turn India helps Myanmar with Kachin rebels. In 2006, we launched a similar operation but with the deal that we supply some arms to Myanmar. This is NOT your Bollywood Gadar movie - it is NOT black & white; it is shades of grey and nuance which is how diplomacy works across the world. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/indias-surgical-strikes-in-myanmar-launched-after-assurance-to-help-local-army-with-kachin-rebels/articleshow/47622581.cms I request you for the LOVE OF GOD - understand that this does NOT look good for future operations and we now have to clear the mud thanks all to the govt acting like d!ckwads.
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