sensible-indian Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Let's compare our 2011 and 2015 lineup. WC 2011 Side: Sehwag SRT Gambhir Kohli Yuvi Dhoni Raina 4 bowlers (including slogger Bhajji) WC 2015 Side: Rohit Dhawan Kohli Rahane (dodgy case) Raina Dhoni (almost over the hill or out of form) Jaddu (not a reliable bat) 4 bowlers (with NO sloggers) WC 2011 side had 7 batsmen who could score centuries and win games. If we didn't have these batsmen, we sure as hell wouldn't have won the WC. Without Yuvi and Raina, the Aus QF wouldn't have been won. Without Raina and tail, the Pak SF wouldn't have been won. Without Gambhir and Kohli partnership, we could have crumbled in finals. Then Dhoni came and took us home. But in WC 2015 side (which is the same side which we have now), we only have 4 genuine century makers (Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli and Raina) and one iffy Rahane. And even amongst the 4 century makers, we have Rohit (who can go either way) and Kohli (out of form - off stump issues). The problem is that there is no one to cover the base if the top 3 fail. Kohli used to win us such matches in the past but now when he isn't in form, no one is stepping up. Take a look at Bangladesh Top 7: Soumya Sarkar Tamim Litton Mushfiq Shakib Sabbir Nasir Hossain All can smash. When will we realize that our ODI strategy of depending on 4 batsmen is messed up.
HippoSucks Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Rahane needs to bat at #3. That would fix a lot of problems if he does well at that position. We would have 5 proper batsman. Dhoni needs to be tried for a few matches with whatever new "technique" he is attempting. Jadeja should be given a couple of matches. If he fails with the bat (I don't care how he bowls) then he should be out of the team for a while. The funny thing is that India isn't lacking batting talent in the slightest. The entire batting line up can be replaced right now with new players and it would still be good. Just have too many passenger players in the team. Also while Ashwin and B Kumar are not very good sloggers, I think they make a decent tail batting at #8 and #9.
sensible-indian Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Performance of Indian batsmen Last 4 years - Games WON while chasing Performance of Indian batsmen Last 4 years - Games LOST while chasing Note: Rohit played 19 out of his 26 games as opener so his stats count too. See the effect of our Top 3. They fail, we fold.
game_changerr Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 evry batsmen seems out of form/touch.....murli vijay shd be given chance after watching other batters woefull form,,,kohli shd take a break from cricket and shd go to long vacation with aunty scrooge
HippoSucks Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Some stats proof. Performance of Indian batsmen Last 4 years - Games WON while chasing Performance of Indian batsmen Last 4 years - Games LOST while chasing Note: Rohit played 19 out of his 26 games as opener so his stats count too. See the effect of our Top 3. They fail, we fold. Isn't that sort of obvious? If a team's 3 best batsman fail, then they are bound to lose. Very rarely (even in teams who have a strong lower order) do teams win after having their entire top order fail.
sensible-indian Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Isn't that sort of obvious? If a team's 3 best batsman fail' date=' then they are bound to lose. Very rarely (even in teams who have a strong lower order) do teams win after having their entire top order fail.[/quote'] I know in won games, batsmen average more but point is that our Top 3 plays a HUGE HUGE role in helping us win games. When they get out, we have NOTHING to fall back to. Its those moments where you have backup when your top order fails...that determines how good a champion side you are. In 2011 QF, our batting was reduced to 180-5 against Aus (our top order didn't fail but we were in deep trouble). But we won. With today's lineup, we would have lost it for sure. Those rare moments include knockout games where all the legacy lies. See Bangladesh's lineup today. Guys like Shakib and Sabbir can smash even after 4 wickets were lost. They recovered from 150-4 to post 300. When we are 150-4, we have Dhoni and Raina out in the middle and Dhoni gets out and the tail is exposed and we get bundled out.
sensible-indian Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Our strength is depth in batting. If we didn't have that, we wouldn't have won the WC 2011. So we need to find people who can get us depth. No point in sticking to the same lineup and then getting owned like CSK did this year.
gattaca Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Sir and Rahane need to go. Sir for sure. Rahane can be opener dont know if he can handle that.
HippoSucks Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Sir and Rahane need to go. Sir for sure. Rahane can be opener dont know if he can handle that. Which opener would be replaced with Rahane? Rohit has been doing very weel since he started opening and Dhawan is in good form right now.
sensible-indian Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Ideal lineup: Rohit Dhawan Kohli New No 4 batsman Raina Replacement for Dhoni Replacement for Jaddu We have to find No 4, No 6 and No 7.
NareshK Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I dont think Rahane's temperament is suited for the ODI game. He may score once in a while but just seems like he is out of his comfort zone when playing ODIs and therefore cant score consistently enough. 55 ODIs is a long enough run and his average is still only 30 which is very poor for a top order batsman nowadays in ODIs. The pattern with his batting is that he gets into his shell too soon, doesnt have the ability to rotate strike and finds it tough to take singles and cant score at a good enough rate and gets out by playing a poor shot. I dont think there is any harm in selectors giving someone else a try.
NareshK Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Jadeja is primarily a bowler who has done decently in conditions which have suited him and can slog decently in such conditions as well. I think he will do fine at 7.
NareshK Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I think Rahane was groomed mostly for World Cup in Aus/NZ because the conditions help fast bowling a bit more and he could provide some stability to the middle order because of his technique and temperament. But now that we are back to playing on flat pitches and he doesnt seem to be consistent enough, we need a replacement and probably need more hitting power in the side. Someone like Uthappa or Sanju Samson who could strike at strike rate of 80 or above should bat at 4.
HippoSucks Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Jadeja is primarily a bowler who has done decently in conditions which have suited him and can slog decently in such conditions as well. I think he will do fine at 7. He is fine as a bowler but his batting just isn't cutting it. He has a decent average but recently his batting isn't providing any impact. And he isn't really capable of slogging from what I've seen, which is crucial for a #7 batsman.
sensible-indian Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Jaddu's bowling has gone down. His batting is hit or miss. Mostly miss. If only Ashwin was somewhat decent in batting in ODIs. He isn't which adds to our woes.
rahulrulezz Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Jaddu's bowling has gone down. His batting is hit or miss. Mostly miss. If only Ashwin was somewhat decent in batting in ODIs. He isn't which adds to our woes. it was always a miss.. he usually plays selfish innings to boost up his average.. 1 50 plus in match winning cause in 120 odi is sinful
MK55 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Lower middle order is a huge problem. Dhoni, Jadeja and Ashwin. :facepalm: Definitely the worst among the top teams presently. :headshake: Compare that with Australia, New Zealand, SA and now even England. We are regressing.. NZ has got Elliot, Ronchi, Anderson Aus has got Faulkner, Maxwell, Marsh, MJ SA has got Roussow, Miller, Duminy England with Stokes, Morgan, Butler and now Rashid We are becoming hopeless. Entirely dependent on Rohit,Kohli,Raina and Dhawan on flat tracks
sandeep Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Middle Order Batting is weak and got exposed today. Dhoni is slowing fading, Jadeja has never been that great with the bat, and Rahane is still finding his feet. The most replaceable guy is Jaddu. I still believe in Rahane.
sensible-indian Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Lower middle order is a huge problem. Dhoni, Jadeja and Ashwin. :facepalm: Definitely the worst among the top teams presently. :headshake: Compare that with Australia, New Zealand, SA and now even England. We are regressing.. NZ has got Elliot, Ronchi, Anderson Aus has got Faulkner, Maxwell, Marsh, MJ SA has got Roussow, Miller, Duminy England with Stokes, Morgan, Butler and now Rashid We are becoming hopeless. Entirely dependent on Rohit,Kohli,Raina and Dhawan on flat tracks +10000000000 Great post.
Zestian Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 One of the interesting point is setting the tail right. I mean we just give Bhuvi and Ashwin the no.8-9 spot and if there are 5 overs to go, they will bat slowly and try to hit in last 10-12 balls. And then comes our sloggers - Shami and Yadaav who gets some 2-3 balls to play normally. Rather I would send Shami/Yadaav to slog at 8 and if that prooves right, then other slogger can join him else make way for Ashwin and Bhuvi who can certainly rotate around and play off the overs in the end. So as per me our line up should be (in the current scenario) - Rohit (Doing a great job at the moment) Dhawan (In long run, he is not a reliable bat so we need to go for someone like Iyer) Rahane (When he comes @ 4/5, he gets confused whether to do tuk - tuk and stop at one end or manage the Run rate. So the point is he seems to be a failure under pressure situations most of the time. But when he will be @ 3, he will know what he needs to do. i.e. Build the innings.) Kohli (@ 3 he may have to come too early and with that had to face swinging ball outside off. Also he is an accumulator and can pace the innings as per the needs. So No. 4 should be the place for him) Raina (No. 5 is just for him) Dhoni (Need to find a replacement ASAP, might play some good innings now but he is loosing his way slowly, Might be Samson but not Saha please) Jadeja (Need to find an allrounder who can slog too. And he is totally not the answer. For the time being, replace him with Yuvi. He is a match winner on his day but haven't seen Jaddu doing that) Yadaav (Slogger) Ashwin (Doing his duty well) Bhuvi (Doing well) Mohit (Shami or some Left arm Pace bowler should come in) - My View
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