panther Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 If stuffs like gawha e hind are written in those haddiths then it is joke. Does not matter if it is second to Quran or whatever. Only imbeciles and idiots will believe in those crap It may be a joke for you but these same hadith also mention Muslims conquest of Constantinople, persia which came to pass, Arabs competing with each other to build lofty buildings which has come to pass and many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 It may be a joke for you but these same hadith also mention Muslims conquest of Constantinople' date=' persia which came to pass, Arabs competing with each other to build lofty buildings which has come to pass and many others.[/quote'] Let me teach you a bit of history. The first Hadith collection is dated to be in 8th century.Persia was conquered in 651 AD.You have any proof that the hadith wasnt added later? Some of the Hadith collection were written after the Fall of constantinople. Bulugh Al-Maram 1372–1449 Kanz al-Ummal 16th century Zujajat al-Masabih 19th century Muntakhab Ahadith 20th century See how things can work?:winky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivaji bhonsle Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Dude' date=' could we please keep Prophet out of discussion. Please don't be disrespectful.[/quote'] Im sorry. I apologize if I hurted you by mentioning prophet Mohammed. That's not my intention. I wanted to show to everyone that how these ghazwa e hind believers believe what's written in hadith selectively and ignore some other stuff when it doesn't suit their agenda. These people are real snakes, downright nut cases who wouldn't think twice to hurt and become potential terrorists. I despise such people. I apologize once again if I hurted your beliefs in any way. I'll delete the post if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anitha Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Dude' date=' could we please keep Prophet out of discussion. Please don't be disrespectful.[/quote'] Every great thing is worth a discussion. Only people afraid of discussions are the ones who who are insecure about the truth and strength of their viewpoint. Those who believe strongly in anything will be completely open to discuss and criticize their idols. Those who don't, will become violent or defensive. God or Prophets and other sacred things should be more open to discussion and criticism than ordinary things. After all, finding fault in the perfect human being is more difficult than an average human being. Shutting down voices won't make the fault go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Please note my question was not to hurt anyone - and I did not question anything that the Prophet did. But I was merely wondering why one person alone should be impervious to criticism when pretty much from the PM to Adbul Kalam to next door kid is now judged on social media and what not. It is a great thought that no religion should be immune from criticism.:two_thumbs_up: However, your next statements "I still strongly believe that the prophets who started them were something else. We need something more/some other level of awareness to judge them." kind of contradicts your statement on religion. Why? Because you refuse to believe that anything was wrong with the person and sort of sweep everything under "oh the interpretations are wrong" carpet. That shows 'bhakt' and hence that belief is religion. See, please don't misunderstand me, I am not questioning your belief, but merely the subject of your belief. Even the great sage Vivekananda is not impervious from criticsm, nor is the real Sai Baba, or anyone really who has walked in the flesh and blood. The more backwards we go, the more mythical they become and the more convenient to attribute the bad things to someone else and keep only the good ones. Fact is everyone deserves the same measures the same measuring rod. Fair enough. I am not trying to change your belief or preaching you anything here my friend. Wrong, for me to believe in Pro. Mohemad, I don't have to be Muslim or hindu. To know about Christ, I don't have to go to church or believe in Bible. If we can discuss things without giving a bad connotations to everything or talk derogatively, in fact I will also participate. But knowing this forum, everyone goes OTT and that's why I said keep certain things away, that way we don't hurt anyone. Having said that let me tell you, I feel hurt every single time when I see people talk about things in a condescending manner. If you have noticed, I never protest if I know it is not worth it. I will rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Im sorry. I apologize if I hurted you by mentioning prophet Mohammed. That's not my intention. I wanted to show to everyone that how these ghazwa e hind believers believe what's written in hadith selectively and ignore some other stuff when it doesn't suit their agenda. These people are real snakes, downright nut cases who wouldn't think twice to hurt and become potential terrorists. I despise such people. I apologize once again if I hurted your beliefs in any way. I'll delete the post if you want. Its all cool man. you don't have to delete anything. I know how that whole ghazwa stuff is. I even know why it was said, in what context, what was the real meaning of it, how it is interpreted. I am totally not defending nut cases. Trust me you don't have to apologize me sir. I aint anybody here.. just another guy. :two_thumbs_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Every great thing is worth a discussion. Only people afraid of discussions are the ones who who are insecure about the truth and strength of their viewpoint. Those who believe strongly in anything will be completely open to discuss and criticize their idols. Those who don't, will become violent or defensive. God or Prophets and other sacred things should be more open to discussion and criticism than ordinary things. After all, finding fault in the perfect human being is more difficult than an average human being. Shutting down voices won't make the fault go away Even if I were to agree with you, I cant do that as it is against the policy of this forum. Now, I am not a MOD here and I wont mind others discussing it but if I feel like, I will protest. So it is not about me shutting anyone off. If you have a voice, open another thread on this topic and go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Let me teach you a bit of history. The first Hadith collection is dated to be in 8th century.Persia was conquered in 651 AD.You have any proof that the hadith wasnt added later? Some of the Hadith collection were written after the Fall of constantinople. Bulugh Al-Maram 13721449 Kanz al-Ummal 16th century Zujajat al-Masabih 19th century Muntakhab Ahadith 20th century See how things can work?:winky: There is little to learn from an ignorant like you, the conquest of Constantinople is in bukhari and the musnad of Imam Ahmed collected a few hundred years before the conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 There is little to learn from an ignorant like you' date=' the conquest of Constantinople is in bukhari and the musnad of Imam Ahmed collected a few hundred years before the conquest.[/quote'] What about Persia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Ghazwa-e-hind or whatever you wan't to call it is authentic' date=' In one hadith book it is mentioned but not as ghazwa-e-hind but simply as a conquest of Hind, I think it is in Al-Sunan al-Sughra. ( 3rd most authentic hadith book).[/quote'] There is a saying in Sanskrit - "Nothing is permanent" so we can extend that point and say that neither the human race or the earth is permanent :dontknow: Now to destroy human race (and even earth), there has to be a means. And how Islam has been interpreted by many, may be it is turning in to the means designed to cause that destruction by leading the world to a 3rd WW or something even terrible .... see all of a sudden there is ISIS, and much more could happen in future So in a way, people such as Zaid Hamid are only doing their duties (unknowingly) :nice: .... If you tell a sane person to drive the world to destruction, he will not. But through concepts such as Ghazwa-e-Hind, it becomes attainable .... Now it is important that those assigned with such important duties remain hardliners and devoted to the cause. The cause needs funding too so we have "OIL" (money flowing in w/o having to use too much brain) .... On the other side, you need people who hate such hardliners (or even religion) and there is no shortage of that either In the end, a Ghazwa-e-world is never intended to happen, but just a concept designed to lead us to our ultimate destiny :winky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 It's no joke Hadith is 2nd to the Quran in Islam' date=' It will be close to the time of the return Of jesus, InshaAllah I hope India will embrace Islam at that time.[/quote'] what do we do after embracing islam ? attack china/america/europe/africa ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desi Cartman Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 It's no joke Hadith is 2nd to the Quran in Islam' date=' It will be close to the time of the return Of jesus, InshaAllah I hope India will embrace Islam at that time.[/quote'] This will give you peace my brother! brjVfLwSCF4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 what do we do after embracing islam ? attack china/america/europe/africa ? You don't have to do anything. Just convert to Islam... The "superior" army of Pakistan will conquer the World for you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 There is little to learn from an ignorant like you' date=' the conquest of Constantinople is in bukhari and the musnad of Imam Ahmed collected a few hundred years before the conquest.[/quote'] Since you are living in a western country, you can't be considered as a Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Since you are living in a western country' date=' you can't be considered as a Muslim.[/quote'] Ah the correct translation of that verse is do not take those Jews and those Christians as your friends who are freinds of each other. This verse I have heard from one scholar is about the judeochristian Zionist alliance, which is waging constant war on Muslims. As you are such an expert on Quran I am sure you have also read the verse which says "and the closest in friendship to you are those who say we are Christians". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 What about Persia? Because the hadith collections were collected later you won't accept it so no point arguing over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 There is a saying in Sanskrit - "Nothing is permanent" so we can extend that point and say that neither the human race or the earth is permanent :dontknow: Now to destroy human race (and even earth), there has to be a means. And how Islam has been interpreted by many, may be it is turning in to the means designed to cause that destruction by leading the world to a 3rd WW or something even terrible .... see all of a sudden there is ISIS, and much more could happen in future So in a way, people such as Zaid Hamid are only doing their duties (unknowingly) :nice: .... If you tell a sane person to drive the world to destruction, he will not. But through concepts such as Ghazwa-e-Hind, it becomes attainable .... Now it is important that those assigned with such important duties remain hardliners and devoted to the cause. The cause needs funding too so we have "OIL" (money flowing in w/o having to use too much brain) .... On the other side, you need people who hate such hardliners (or even religion) and there is no shortage of that either In the end, a Ghazwa-e-world is never intended to happen, but just a concept designed to lead us to our ultimate destiny :winky: From what I have read and heard Ghazwa e hind will be close to the time of the return of jesus therefore ww3 would have already happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 What will happen when the whole World finally converts to be Sunni Muslims? I hope then there will be everlasting peace... But then what will happen to that Jihad which ensures 72 Hoors in Jannat? As a Sunni Muslim whom you've to kill to get those gorgeous 72 Hoors? Maybe the World full of Sunni Muslims will become Jannat automatically... :dontknow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Ah the correct translation of that verse is do not take those Jews and those Christians as your friends who are freinds of each other. This verse I have heard from one scholar is about the judeochristian Zionist alliance, which is waging constant war on Muslims. As you are such an expert on Quran I am sure you have also read the verse which says "and the closest in friendship to you are those who say we are Christians". So isn't America friends with Israel? Or for that matter all the western countries? :giggle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 So isn't America friends with Israel? Or for that matter all the western countries? :giggle: American government yes, all Americans I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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