Raghav_12 Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 lol I guess I would hv posted this article 2 or 3 times at least online Quickly spotted 2 previous instances http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=325439&postcount=41 http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=816156&postcount=1 I believe there are four more instances :-)
Vijy Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Kapil in his first 60 tests was averaging 27 with 4 wickets per match. Throw in his performances against WI and it really is a no brainier. Kapil played 56 tests in 1979-1983 (inclusive of both years) and averaged 26.19 with the ball with 4.18 wkts per match. Srinath played lesser tests over a longer time span and had roughly similar stats. Apart from Eng in this period, Kapil was superb against WI, Oz and Pakis (three of the best teams around). Kapil at his peak was better than Srinu at his peak.
Gollum Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Kapil played 56 tests in 1979-1983 (inclusive of both years) and averaged 26.19 with the ball with 4.18 wkts per match. Srinath played lesser tests over a longer time span and had roughly similar stats. Apart from Eng in this period' date=' Kapil was superb against WI, Oz and Pakis (three of the best teams around). Kapil at his peak was better than Srinu at his peak.[/quote'] +1 His stats, especially against the great WIndians is legendary.
Vijy Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 +1 His stats, especially against the great WIndians is legendary. If we take every Indian cricketer at his peak, Kapil at his peak might be the all-time MVP Indian player ever.
Gollum Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 If we take every Indian cricketer at his peak' date=' Kapil at his peak might be the all-time MVP Indian player ever.[/quote'] 100% agree with that. Amarnath, Dravid, Vengsarkar, Gavaskar, Sehwag, Sachin all had crazy peaks but Kapil had 2 disciplines while these folk were good only in 1.
Vijy Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 100% agree with that. Amarnath' date=' Dravid, Vengsarkar, Gavaskar, Sehwag, Sachin all had crazy peaks but Kapil had 2 disciplines while these folk were good only in 1.[/quote'] If we look at records in matches won, the only true competitor for Kapil is Mankad. We won very few tests in Mankad's time (something like 5-6) but he avg around 100 with bat and 13 with ball - I'm quoting these numbers off the top of my head though.
Vijy Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 100% agree with that. Amarnath' date=' Dravid, Vengsarkar, Gavaskar, Sehwag, Sachin all had crazy peaks but Kapil had 2 disciplines while these folk were good only in 1.[/quote'] Yes, his contributions have been heavily downplayed since ours is a land of batsmen where bowlers (and allrounders) never get their due.
Gollum Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 If we look at records in matches won' date=' the only true competitor for Kapil is Mankad. We won very few tests in Mankad's time (something like 5-6) but he avg around 100 with bat and 13 with ball - I'm quoting these numbers off the top of my head though.[/quote'] That is mindblowing. I knew he was good but this good??
Vijy Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 That is mindblowing. I knew he was good but this good?? Very very small sample size of course, and all the wins came at home. But then, in Mankad's time we were c**p everywhere, even at home. Looked up the figs now - avg 112 with the bat and 13 with the ball (8 wkts per match). If we put aside the small sample size for the time being, he's statistically India's greatest ever matchwinner. Yet another great who has never received his due - his somewhat ordinary career stats are bcause he was shunted everywhere in the batting order (hence low batting avg) and heavily overbowled on flat pitches (high bowling avg). Anyway, this is a Srinu thread, so I'll stop here... :)
Gollum Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Spot on Vijy, your memory is excellent as is Vinoo Mankad the all rounder !!!
Vijy Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Spot on Vijy, your memory is excellent as is Vinoo Mankad the all rounder !!! Batting avg - bowling avg is approx 100 :omg:
Gollum Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 You got me thinking now. Got to read more about Mankad now. He may get into our all time XI as the 2nd all rounder.
Vijy Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 You got me thinking now. Got to read more about Mankad now. He may get into our all time XI as the 2nd all rounder. It should be 5 batsmen + 2 allrounders (Kapil and Mankad) + keeper + 3 bowlers.
Gollum Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 It should be 5 batsmen + 2 allrounders (Kapil and Mankad) + keeper + 3 bowlers. Somehow I get a feeling that if Ashwin is able to fulfill his talents and play uninterrupted for 7-8 more years he has it in him to force an entry into our all time XI. A big 'If' but he has the ability.
Vijy Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Somehow I get a feeling that if Ashwin is able to fulfill his talents and play uninterrupted for 7-8 more years he has it in him to force an entry into our all time XI. A big 'If' but he has the ability. Very true. I hope he doesn't go the Bhajji route.
Marut Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 100% agree with that. Amarnath' date=' Dravid, Vengsarkar, Gavaskar, Sehwag, Sachin all had crazy peaks but Kapil had 2 disciplines while these folk were good only in 1.[/quote'] Kapil is undoubtly the greatest Indian cricketer ever. He was at the same time the best batsman and bowler in ODIs during the 80s. He was far ahead of every other test bowler in the team. He is far ahead of every all rounder India has ever produced, in both formats. He was ranked #1 ODI all rounder for about 9 career years and he was far ahead of others in ICC all rounder ratings. He didn't do full justice to his talent, particularly in test matches - that is another story though...
rkt.india Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Very true. I hope he doesn't go the Bhajji route. Bhajji way? Bhajji has 400 test wickets, was a match winner. People have such short memories.
moniker Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Bhajji way? Bhajji has 400 test wickets' date=' was a match winner. People have such short memories.[/quote'] Yeah and he's the worst bowler to get 400 wickets. You play 100+ tests you will get 400 wickets in spite of averaging 32 and striking at every 68 balls. A good player for India who did very well on his day but definitely not an India ATG.
rkt.india Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Yeah and he's the worst bowler to get 400 wickets. You play 100+ tests you will get 400 wickets in spite of averaging 32 and striking at every 68 balls. A good player for India who did very well on his day but definitely not an India ATG. Like other Indian bowling greats average 25 or less with SR 50. Kumble averages 30 with SR 66, FYI.
Vijy Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Bhajji way? Bhajji has 400 test wickets' date=' was a match winner. People have such short memories.[/quote'] Let me clarify what I mean by the Bhajji route - starting off as a genuine matchwinner (avg of 26 and 4.5 wkts per match initially) and evolving into a most pathetic bowler (after 2011, he's avg 56+ and SR of nearly 100). What I'd like to see from Ashwin is for him to get better as he grows older (like Kumble, excluding last year of international Test career) and not like Bhajji. I hope that this clarifies your misinterpretation of my statement.
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