Pace and Hype

[Singh bling]

So you think fast bowlers haven't improved their pace in decades? 

Yes they improved , but how much? Do you think in 1979 no bowler in world  was bowling 140 mark when today even Rabada hit few 150 kph.

What about Players like Gooch who played between 1975-1995 , didn't they notice the difference that in 1979-80 they were receiving bowls  at 133-134 while rarely they come across  140 kph. While in early 90s with lights of Waqar or Donald they were getting few balls over 150 kph

[Singh bling]

There are many many bowlers who have bowled a few 145 k + deliveries in their lives.  In-fact, most fast and fast-medium bowlers have as also a few medium-fast ones....especially in LOIs.

What is important is what speed ranges they bowl day in and day out in matches.....that is their normal pace range.

That is why I am discussing Holding's avg in 1979 competition which was 135. If he was barely 135  for 8 balls then in tests he must be 132-133 for whole day

[express bowling]

Yes they improved , but how much? Do you think in 1979 no bowler in world  was bowling 140 mark when today even Rabada hit few 150 kph.

What about Players like Gooch who played between 1975-1995 , didn't they notice the difference that in 1979-80 they were receiving bowls  at 133-134 while rarely they come across  140 kph. While in early 90s with lights of Waqar or Donald they were getting few balls over 150 kph

Firstly...the increase is gradual and players playing also adapt.

Secondly...even in the '70s there were 2 bowlers  touching 150 k and one touching 160 k.

It is the speed of the average bowler which was lesser in the '70s.

Edited January 11, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

That is why I am discussing Holding's avg in 1979 competition which was 135. If he was barely 135  for 8 balls then in tests he must be 132-133 for whole day

Not really...he could have had a niggle on that day. He has clocked higher speeds earlier and looked very quick earlier too ...which the likes of Imran, Hadlee,  Pascoe  etc. haven't.

[rkt.india]

Firstly...the increase is gradual and players playing also adapt.

Secondly...even in the '70s there were 2 bowling touching 150 k and one touching 160 k.

It is the speed of the average bowler which was lesser in the '70s.

ditto

[Singh bling]

Here is what I read on speed measurement on another forum

From what I have heard, this was the average speed over 18 yards. This meant that the bowlers who pitched it short had massive disadvantage to those who bowled full tosses. Even those who bowled full tosses would have still lost 10kph from the air resistance too.

If the average speed was taken, we can assume that the bowler's speeds, as per the methods employed by TV channels, were at least 5kph higher than recorded here.

I am sure that these readings cannot be too far above reality, as it is surely ludicrous to say that John Snow, England's express pacer, did not hit near 140kph. These readings do seem nearer how contempories would estimate it. However, it is a possibility that these were 'release speeds' rather than 'TV speeds' which are calculated a split second after release. I remember seeing, on hawkeye, a delivery from Zaheer Khan which was released at 137kph, but the speed gun reading (noted as "before pitching" on hawkeye) was 129kph and that was the one which appeared on the TV. Brett Lee clocked at 161kph in the 2001/02 season, an anomalous reading created by registering the release speed.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/38381-world-s-fastest-bowler-competition-1979-a.html

request to mod please don't delete it 

[express bowling]

singhbling......

 

What do you think about the 9.5 k difference in Lillee's fastest speed in the 1975 competition .....that I posted in the last page   ?

 

[Singh bling]

Firstly...the increase is gradual and players playing also adapt.

Secondly...even in the '70s there were 2 bowlers  touching 150 k and one touching 160 k.

It is the speed of the average bowler which was lesser in the '70s.

But no bowler bowled faster than 140 kph barring Thommo who was not playing and 1 bowl of Holding

[renjith]

It is the speed of the average bowler which was lesser in the '70s.

Any specific reason why you think so? What restricts them from bowling at similar pace of current generation average bowlers? I think every decade has 1 or 2 bowlers who could go above 150 some bowlers in the range 140 to 150 and lots in the 130s. There is no reason why it has to change across periods. imo modern training methods has infact reduced raw power of human beings.

Edited January 11, 2016 by renjith

[rkt.india]

Any specific reason why you think so? What restricts them from bowling at similar pace of current generation average bowlers? I think every decade has 1 or 2 bowlers who could go above 150 some bowlers in the range 140 to 150 and lots in the 130s. There is no reason why it has to change across periods. imo modern training methods has infact reduced raw power of human beings.

in every sport, athletes have become stronger and  faster, why only in cricket they wont?

[renjith]

in every sport, athletes have become stronger and  faster, why only in cricket they wont?

bowling speed has more to do with technique, body alignment and rythm than raw power. the strongest man need not be the quickest. that is the main reason I don't believe old generation bowlers were slower.

[express bowling]

Any specific reason why you think so? What restricts them from bowling at similar pace of current generation average bowlers? I think every decade has 1 or 2 bowlers who could go above 150 some bowlers in the range 140 to 150 and lots in the 130s. There is no reason why it has to change across periods. imo modern training methods has infact reduced raw power of human beings.

I am a bit surprised that you are thinking this is so improbable !

Look at most other sports where speed, timing, power etc. have been  measured across decades...like sprinting, running, swimming, weight lifting, discuss throwing, javellin throwing, 

Times have decreased, weighs have increased, distances have increased steadily over time. More so as far as average performers are concerned. it is always possible to have one or two freaks of nature in any generation, who can stand the test of time....but it is the average performers who keep improving  ( here , by average, I mean an average international sportsman )

This has been so because of improved training methods, improved nutrition, much improved supplements both legal and illegal etc.

Edited January 11, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

But no bowler bowled faster than 140 kph barring Thommo who was not playing and 1 bowl of Holding

Just look at the low speeds of the 1998 competition when the speedguns used were the same as now

Devon Malcolm, who many of the batsmen of that era  claimed was one of the quickest they have faced, clocked a fastest of 141.6 k.

Source : espncricinfo 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283875.html

 

1998 Competition

A fastest bowler competition was held at the testimonial match for Courtney Walsh on July 20, 1998.

 

Player	Kph	Notes
Devon Malcolm	141.6	winner
Franklyn Rose	141.6
Andy Caddick	140.0
Nixon McLean	138.4
Ed Giddins	138.4
Courtney Walsh	133.5
Ian Bishop	133.5
David Lawrence	125.5

 

[renjith]

I am a bit surprised that you are thinking this is so improbable !

Look at most other sports where speed, timing, power etc. have been  measured across decades...like sprinting, running, swimming, weight lifting, discuss throwing, javellin throwing, 

Times have decreased, weighs have increased, distances have increased steadily over time. More so as far as average performers are concerned. it is always possible to have one or two freaks of nature in any generation, who can stand the tests of time....but it is the average performers who keep improving  ( here , by average, I mean an average international sportsman )

This has been so because of improved training methods, improved nutrition, much improved supplements both legal and illegal etc.

I agree with you to an extent in other sports records have improved over time. In bowling speed also we need to expect the same. but not to the extent you mentioned in earlier comments.

technique does play a big role in speed. also I feel raw exercises like the old generation guys do like running for 10 km, bowling for hours and hours in nets is no lesser preparation than modern scientific training in gym.

[express bowling]

I agree with you to an extent in other sports records have improved over time. In bowling speed also we need to expect the same. but not to the extent you mentioned in earlier comments.

technique does play a big role in speed. also I feel raw exercises like the old generation guys do like running for 10 km, bowling for hours and hours in nets is no lesser preparation than modern scientific training in gym.

I have not mentioned any extent of increase in speeds over time because I do not have exact data to support it.

Just said in that earlier post  that,  " It is the speed of the average bowler which was lesser in the '70s. "  ( average international pacer )

Even if you feel that old generation bowling techniques were better ( I don't think so ) ... vastly improved supplements and nutrition play a big role in today's higher speeds, especially in terms of stamina and bowling quick for longer periods as well as the speed of the average international pacer.

Edited January 11, 2016 by express bowling

[renjith]

I have not mentioned any extent of increase in speeds over time because I do not have exact data to support it.

Just said in that earlier post  that,  " It is the speed of the average bowler which was lesser in the '70s. " 

Even if you feel that old generation bowling techniques were better ( I don't think so ) ... vastly improved supplements and nutrition play a big role in today's higher speeds, especially in terms of stamina and bowling quick for longer periods as well as the speed of the average international pacer.

Strength is only one of several factors that affect speed. Infact there so many other factors which are much more important tHan strength. And those factors clearly does not change accross generations.

Even if we go by the assumption that current generation players get get better nutrition supplements and training which results in improved strength what amount of speed increase do you expect. Maximum 2 or 3 kmph overall.

When I see many speed comparisons in above posts I get the idea that you guys are talking about around 10 kmph difference. Ie an average pacer today can bowl at 140 where as one from 70s bowled at 130. That is Wat I do not agree.

[rkt.india]

bowling speed has more to do with technique, body alignment and rythm than raw power. the strongest man need not be the quickest. that is the main reason I don't believe old generation bowlers were slower.

Power is always a factor but those who bowl quick are able to utilize that power to max. Others cant.

[Rightarmfast]

I hope singh Bling has atleast seen the video of the 79 bowling competition. Please check the video, and if any of those bowlers look like bowling express or even over 140 to you, then lets talk! 

[Rightarmfast]

I hope singh Bling has atleast seen the video of the 79 bowling competition. Please check the video, and if any of those bowlers look like bowling express or even over 140 to you, then lets talk! 

[Rightarmfast]

I hope singh Bling has atleast seen the video of the 79 bowling competition. Please check the video, and if any of those bowlers look like bowling express or even over 140 to you, then lets talk!