Amla steps down as South Africa captain

[philcric]

Try to post something HQ atleast instead of useless counting no one gives a shit about..

 

 

LOL

[philcric]

He said "Whatever Ganguly built was destroyed by Dhoni"

I was Showing him how well he managed once he took over

 

 

 

 

Judging by your posts, I'm not sure if you are up for a fair discussion, but I'll try.

India has always done well in India right from 1990. I don't think they've even lost 5 test series at home in the last 25 years. Didn't matter if the captain was Azhar, Saurav, Dravid, Kumble or Dhoni. India is super strong at home (like Aus is in Aus). You make Umesh Yadav as the captain and it probably wouldn't make too much of a difference.

Of course that doesn't mean you give no credit to the captain. So, let me say it .... Dhoni is a GREAT test captain IN India. But, it isn't too far fetched to imagine even Umesh Yadav would possibly have been a great captain IN India.

The challenge for India has always been playing abroad. Among all the major test nations, India possibly has the most skewed home/away test record. Unbeatable at home and hardly competitive abroad. And rightly, they get a lot more stick than Aus/Eng/SA/Pak when they lose abroad.

What changed under Ganguly? We became competitive all across the world. Started giving teams like Aus/Eng a run for their money in their home conditions. And it continued with Dravid and Kumble as captains.

Winning in India isn't that difficult. The challenge for an Indian captain is to build a team that can win some test matches in places like Aus/Eng/NZ/SA. For that you need to have great desire to win abroad, vision, good planning and obviously a bit of luck to have a good pool of players.

Most serious test fans believe Dhoni lacked a bit of desire and vision compared to Saurav/Dravid when it came to away test series. It looked like he didn't care as much / wasn't desperate enough. And  it reflects in the results. A couple of total whitewashes and many heavy losses. And it's just not the number of tests lost, but the way they were lost. Many a times we were out of the game by the second day, and sometimes even by the end of first day. India didn't lose so badly under even Azhar with a significantly weaker team.

 

[express bowling]

Dhoni has obviously achieved a lot as a captain. He will be remembered as one of the best to lead India along with Sourav Ganguly. 

That being said, if Dhoni wants to be honest with himself , as far as his captaincy is concerned , he will realize that he is not the same captain that he was till mid-2011.

Every captain loses test matches and test series in away tours.  It is even more likely for a team like India as our bowling attack is not up to the mark outside the sub-continent. I don't blame Dhoni entirely for the losses BUT he disappointed big time as a captain in the last 4 years because he seems to have lost the will to win or even the will to fight when the going got tough. He seemed bereft of ideas as to what to do to turn the team around. Because our test team had its flaws, we needed a captain who could be a leader of men and inspire the underdogs to rise to the occasion...and that was missing big time especially in test matches. listening to him talking about the " process " after every test loss was really depressing.

Another major issue was criticizing his own players in public. He never did it 4 years back and had the backing of his whole team. Why did he suddenly start doing so ?  It is bad for the morale of the whole team and MSD knows it more than we do.

Lastly...India is a team with sub-standard fast bowlers. We need a captains who encourages them, motivates them and backs them to the hilt....to bring out the best from a bunch of ordinary bowlers. He actually went the other way and never really encouraged a fast bowler when he was performing badly. Now...it is not Dhoni's fault that we don't have good fast bowlers but you have to use what you have. Comments like, " we don't have any fast bowlers " and showing distinct preference towards medium pacer were not prudent.

It is not easy playing all 3 formats and being the captain as well.  Captaining India is a very very tough job with tremendous pressure involved. We won't even realize what they feel and go through. Seven years is a long long time for this high pressure job. Dhoni has a wonderful legacy as a captain and  has been a wonderful ODI player.  If he wants to hold on to this legacy, he should give up captaincy in all the formats. 

MSD has served India wonderfully as a captain between 2008 and 2011...now it is time for Kohli to take over in all formats.

Edited January 8, 2016 by express bowling

[philcric]

^^ Good, balanced post. Agree with everything you say.

IMO, Dhoni was a good ODI captain and under-par Test captain.

He has take too much load as WK/Batsman/Captain for 7 years in T20/ODI/Tests/IPL, which deteriorated him both as a player and a captain. Ideally, he should have given up Test captaincy a few years back and T20/ODI captaincy after the 2015 World Cup.

Two things I've major issues with Dhoni as test captain was lack of initiative/interest to 1) create team's legacy and 2) to understand and develop fast bowling unit. IMO, he was a defensive test captain and tried to captain a test match like an ODI. His was probably too practical regarding the team's abilities abroad and I don't believe he ever aimed / dreamed of winning test series in places like Eng, Aus, SA.

As an ODI captain, he did pretty good in most of the world tournaments, so no major complaints there. He was more suited for captaining ODIs where, to win, your team has to score 1 more run than the opposition as against tests where you invariably has to take 20 opposition wickets to win.

 

[express bowling]

^^ Good, balanced post. Agree with everything you say.

IMO, Dhoni was a good ODI captain and under-par Test captain.

He has take too much load as WK/Batsman/Captain for 7 years in T20/ODI/Tests/IPL, which deteriorated him both as a player and a captain. Ideally, he should have given up Test captaincy a few years back and T20/ODI captaincy after the 2015 World Cup.

Two things I've major issues with Dhoni as test captain was lack of initiative/interest to 1) create team's legacy and 2) to understand and develop fast bowling unit. IMO, he was a defensive test captain and tried to captain a test match like an ODI. His was probably too practical regarding the team's abilities abroad and I don't believe he ever aimed / dreamed of winning test series in places like Eng, Aus, SA.

As an ODI captain, he did pretty good in most of the world tournaments, so no major complaints there. He was more suited for captaining ODIs where, to win, your team has to score 1 more run than the opposition as against tests where you invariably has to take 20 opposition wickets to win.

 

Good points.

I too have felt that he is primarily an LOI player and LOI captain at heart and in thought process. His natural tendency, enjoyment, understanding and USP lay in LOIs. 

Test cricket was a challenge that he had to take up....and it overcame him when he lost his form and momentum as captain.

But his keeping to spinners in test matches was very very good, especially his ability to stump batsmen. And his test batting was not bad for a keeper at no.7 although he was not a no.6 batsman.

[adi B]

So you are telling a guy who won all ICC WCS and Few other IMP once to resign just after 2 away loses??? Me joining this forum has nothing to do with facts.. Amount of hate MSD gets on this forum for useless shit is just unbelievable.. You don't have one decent pace bowler in your team and how the hell do you expect us to win away series LMAO.. Blaming the captain for everything a thread in India  i believe.. What did Mr. Virat do in England ?? Became Jimmy's Bunny in that so called ENG series.. He has 6-7 series wins in a row when he was the captain back at start.. Seems like someone is living under a rock.. LOL people did call him almost everything and everywhere.. 

Double standards much ?

touched a nerve eh? Listen Dhoni might be your bhagwan and all but he's not beyond criticism,a captain getting whitewashed in 2 massive away series and then immediately losing a home series should have been sacked. The way you are saying 'just 2 away whitewashes' is not right,I bet if Kohli gets whitewashed in Australia and England you'll be the first one to demand his sacking

You are mixing the formats,did I once said that Dhoni should have been sacked from loi captaincy or should have retired froM tests? I only said he should have been removed as the test captain and rightly so.

the  fast bowler excuse that you give is a poor one and just clutching to the straws ,a captain should be held accountable and the way sreeni stepped in and saved Dhoni by sacking the selectors was disgusting to say the least

[adi B]

Okay now enough with msd,this thread is about amla so lets not derail it further.good to see icf getting a flow .

Amla did the right thing by stepping diwn for the team's sake but his own legacy Will get hurt a bit because he couldn't handle it and stepped down in the middle of the series.saf fans will respect him though for stepping down as he clearly wasn't good enough