Pace wise we have come of age, Umesh, Aaron , Shami, how can they be world class

[MCcricket]

Shami looks old but he is not, he has come thru age group cricket, n Ganguly had mentored him a bit n fast tracked him, Ajit Agarkar looked almost same throughout his 10 or more years, does it mean he was 20 when he retired, Shami was sent to live with family or friends to Bengal at a young age to play cricket there, also he was fast tracked to Bengal on his potential n made a early debut

[Vilander]

8 hours ago, Temujin Khaghan said:

srinath, umesh, shami are all quicker than zaheer

but the former three never had the body language which says that they are in control of the situation unlike zak

you never get the feeling that srinath, umesh, shami have a plan and they are working out the batsman...

 

with zaheer khan, even if he was bowling on at 80mph, you sense something is about to happen soon...

 

i will rate bhuvi above umesh, shami anyday

 

bhuvi > shami > ishanth > umesh for me

average/strikerate over short careers does on directly become ability when bhuv has not played as much as Shami and Yadav who have been around longer , Zak at his peak was 142-148 with swing, and then grew to a 135 -142 swing and reverse no one regarded him a medium pacer, he i would say is on par with Srinath in terms of ability. Shami is lesser as of now, Umesh has these deliveries that he bowls which makes one wonder if he is better than all of them because of the way he gives no chance to batsmen in those deliveries ( be it Ponting,or faf, ,Ross now,i remember finch,warner,Bailey in LOI he also owns Guptil), i remember Srinath owning Trescothick and Zak's Smith being far greater significant bunnies but who is Shami's bunny ? or Ishant's ?, so Umesh is not that bad certainly greater than Bhuvi ( who is comparatively a highly skilled beginner medium pacer so it remains to be seen if he does well on flat decks and is trusted) and Umesh is probably equal to Ishant and lesser than Shami in tests.

[Vilander]

11 hours ago, NZ Gambler said:

Agree, just look at how Tim Southee has regressed since Alan Donald and Shane Bond left the national coaching set up. 

i can understand Alan Donald being a free agent,but why did they let Shane Bond go.

[fineleg]

Get some top rated fast bowling coaches (foreign ones) for U-16 , U-19 and India-A and Indian national team.

BCCI shell out the bucks and make it a priority.

[tweaker]

 Kapil Dev feels that the Ishant Sharma  lacks the necessary discipline to become a consistent wicket-taker in the longer format of the game. 

He feels that Ishant lacks in certain areas which are crucial for someone leading the pace attack.  I think Ishant is a very good bowler. He is a genuine quick bowler with great height. But he has to develop the wicket-taking ball, that ability to take wickets at crucial times. Perhaps that's where he is lacking. There is no shortage of ability and talent but somewhere the talent to take wickets is missing," he said. 

 

A look at Ishant’s numbers in the Test format proves that Kapil’s words hold good value. He has picked up 209 wickets in 66 matches at an average of 36.71 and strike rate of 66.6 – not impressive numbers by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Kapil also lamented the inconsistent bowling that has often plagued Ishant at times, especially in the shorter formats of the game and said that the 28-year-old has failed to do justice to his abilities. "One needs to bowl better, consistently bowl a better line and length. It's not about bowling two very good deliveries in an over but you have to bowl five good balls. 

[express bowling]

28 minutes ago, tweaker said:

 . "One needs to bowl better, consistently bowl a better line and length. It's not about bowling two very good deliveries in an over but you have to bowl five good balls. 

This is the key

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, tweaker said:

"One needs to bowl better, consistently bowl a better line and length. It's not about bowling two very good deliveries in an over but you have to bowl five good balls. 

^ Yup agree with both of you, this is probably the most key thing. Basically the same lacunae to a lesser degree found in Yadav. 

[MCcricket]

With Ishant he doesn't seem to have a stock ball as such, n then the occasional unduped or the one keeps straight would work great for him, there is still hope as Srinath learnt very late n Ishant might too.

What India needs is a full time bowling coach n a bowling consultant , not just the squad but domestic cricket, Ishant can be a very good Bowler but lacks some finesse n aggression, he bowled well when he did not use his brain n was aggressive initially now under Dhoni what was put in his mind was save runs n be a mule, maybe under Virat we will see a more aggressive going for wkts bowler.

Some bowlers like Akram, Bond, Rabada , Steyn are freaks as they bowl according to the wkt and batsmen n have that control of length, and know how to get wkts, they don't need a stock ball.

 

Lesser talented ones but accurate ones like Mgrath, Walsh had a very good stock ball n then had subtle variations , Umesh cannot bowl like them so he should look at Waqar, Bond, Rabada n look to go for wkts.

Bhuvi for all his skills is a medium pacer n will be suitable for certain conditions only, if you look in test he starts at 135 K n then slows to 128 K , same with pretenders who R worse then him Dhawal, Unadkunt, Arvind.

We have the raw material in Shami, Umesh, Aaron, Aniket, Pandya, Pankaj, Suyal, Nathu, Sangwan, who will make them into a wkt taking match winning unit.

 

First n most importantly are the selectors n thT has been a failing to an extent, right bowlers should be picked up for right format.

Shami, Umesh, Aaron, Aniket, Sangwan, Pandya , BK , Ishant for test along with Nathu

Bumrah, Pandya, Aaron, Sangwan, BK, Shami for ODI

Shane Bond to me, Shoaib, are the best candidates for coach n Akram or Zak as consultant

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Brilliant catching btw.

[express bowling]

Our pacers bowled in good areas today....and at high pace.

 

but

 

3 catches dropped in their first spells

 

2 off Umesh and  1 off Shami      

[Rightarmfast]

The fast bowlers were excellent. They cant do anything more. And this has been one of Indias problem consistently, if the fielders cant support bowlers, how will they be world class?

 

Btw, Shami's first ball of the test was at 145. I think this is the only time in a test match I have seen a bowler reaching that pace from the word go. I dont recall Akhtar doing it, Lee might have. 

Is this Shami's way of telling he is one of the best and fiercest bowler of world as of today?

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

The fast bowlers were excellent. They cant do anything more. And this has been one of Indias problem consistently, if the fielders cant support bowlers, how will they be world class?

 

Btw, Shami's first ball of the test was at 145. I think this is the only time in a test match I have seen a bowler reaching that pace from the word go. I dont recall Akhtar doing it, Lee might have. 

Is this Shami's way of telling he is one of the best and fiercest bowler of world as of today?

 

Umesh --    fastest 147 k     Average  140 k

Shami --     fastest 145 k      Average 141 k

 

Very high speeds for a test match first session  and with accuracy

[Malcolm Merlyn]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Umesh --    fastest 147 k     Average  140 k

Shami --     fastest 145 k      Average 141 k

 

Very high speeds for a test match first session  and with accuracy

 

When did Umesh bowl 147?

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

 

When did Umesh bowl 147?

 

He did...you perhaps missed that delivery

 

Quite a few 145 k also apart from that 147 k

Edited November 9, 2016 by express bowling

[CG]

Man after long time we have a good pair of Pacers who are quick and bowl good line and length.

[MCcricket]

Umesh seems to be making good progress under Virat, n does make things happen in his spells now, he needs to use his whippy action n learn to bowl a good sharp short ball at the body.

 

Shami has upped his pace n is no longer F/M, he bowls same pace as many so called fast bowlers, to me he is bowling fast, hope his injury is not one but a temp setback n be back after lunch