India's ODI vs Test sides

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

but there is no way, they are going to drop one of Dhawan or Rohit who have been match winners too.

If they don't then Dhawan can come at No.5.  His technique is f***ed up anyway.

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

If they don't then Dhawan can come at No.5.  His technique is f***ed up anyway.

I would like Rahul in middle order instead. 

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I would like Rahul in middle order instead. 

I would not like Rahul any lower than No.4...for the reason I just mentioned. He has great potential as an all-condition opening batter in TESTS and we don't have many such options. ( Even Vijay is inconsistent.....averaging just 40 at age 33 ).

 

Rohit and Dhawan opening together, and both starting slow, won't help our ODI side either.

[Cricketics]

31 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Rahul wont play as an opener. Even in T20s in WI, he played in middle order and in 3 ODIs he played in middle order too. Even for RCB, Kohli played him in middle order.

Too early to say. Since Rohit won't be playing, and if any new comers are not picked, they might put Rahul as opener as Dhoni might think that 3rd down would be too low for Rahul as he himself is planning to come on no. 4 and Kohli at 3. Depends what other combination we are playing too.

I do see Rahul opening in the first game, but it could change depending on the combo played.

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Too early to say. Since Rohit won't be playing, and if any new comers are not picked, they might put Rahul as opener as Dhoni might think that 3rd down would be too low for Rahul as he himself is planning to come on no. 4 and Kohli at 3. Depends what other combination we are playing too.

I do see Rahul opening in the first game, but it could change depending on the combo played.

Rahul has batted in middle order so far in ODIs so that is not a problem for him. You will anyway need someone to bat at 5 and Rahul is the best of them. He is better hitter than Manish Pandey and Jadhav. He might open till Rohit is not fit but once he comes back, he will to bat down as I am not talking about just NZ series. 

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I would not like Rahul any lower than No.4...for the reason I just mentioned. He has great potential as an all-condition opening batter in TESTS and we don't have many such options. ( Even Vijay is inconsistent.....averaging just 40 at age 33 ).

 

Rohit and Dhawan opening together, and both starting slow, won't help our ODI side either.

yes, but a good player should be able to make those adjustments. It is not just for him, switching form LOIs to test is an adjustment for every player. Rahul is not Sehwag even if he opens. He too will start slowly against the new ball and take his time like Rohit and Dhawan do. If you want an attacking opener, better go with Pant.

[Cricketics]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Rahul has batted in middle order so far in ODIs so that is not a problem for him. You will anyway need someone to bat at 5 and Rahul is the best of them. He is better hitter than Manish Pandey and Jadhav. He might open till Rohit is not fit but once he comes back, he will to bat down as I am not talking about just NZ series. 

He looks a good hitter, but no.5 just doesn't mean he will always be used as a finisher. If we are ever 65-4, he will have to build innings too by coming at no. 5. He has to prove all of that. Manish Pandey, even though hasn't played many games, has impressed after his Australia tour. Though even he has to show that he is a long term player, but for now, I would pick Pandey ahead of Rahul in my lower order batting over Rahul. And if Rohit and Dhawan are both available and going well, then might play both Rahul and Pandey, that is only if Rahul and Pandey are both looking good.

 

Pandey for me is the first choice at no. 5/6 than Rahul, for now.

[rkt.india]

36 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

He looks a good hitter, but no.5 just doesn't mean he will always be used as a finisher. If we are ever 65-4, he will have to build innings too by coming at no. 5. He has to prove all of that. Manish Pandey, even though hasn't played many games, has impressed after his Australia tour. Though even he has to show that he is a long term player, but for now, I would pick Pandey ahead of Rahul in my lower order batting over Rahul. And if Rohit and Dhawan are both available and going well, then might play both Rahul and Pandey, that is only if Rahul and Pandey are both looking good.

 

Pandey for me is the first choice at no. 5/6 than Rahul, for now.

Rahul also batted in middle order in his first T20s also has a 100 and I would pick Rahul over Pandey.

Edited December 24, 2016 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

yes, but a good player should be able to make those adjustments. It is not just for him, switching form LOIs to test is an adjustment for every player. Rahul is not Sehwag even if he opens. He too will start slowly against the new ball and take his time like Rohit and Dhawan do. If you want an attacking opener, better go with Pant.

It is....but  I don't want any good quality test batsman bat below No. 4 in ODIs....whether it is Kohli, Rahul or Rahane. Introducing Nair at No.5 would pose a similar challenge.

[Cricketics]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

yes, but a good player should be able to make those adjustments. It is not just for him, switching form LOIs to test is an adjustment for every player. Rahul is not Sehwag even if he opens. He too will start slowly against the new ball and take his time like Rohit and Dhawan do. If you want an attacking opener, better go with Pant.

I saw Pant last year in Vijay Hazare trophy and he was not explosive as you are describing, but was taking his time and watching the ball. I actually enjoyed his innings until he gave it away. Though nerves could have played its part and he might not know how to go about as those were some of his first big games at that level. Pant against U19 bowlers and against our Ranji bowlers and International bowlers is too different thing. I would also give him a chance as opener, but we can not expect him to be explosive right away.

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

He looks a good hitter, but no.5 just doesn't mean he will always be used as a finisher. If we are ever 65-4, he will have to build innings too by coming at no. 5. He has to prove all of that. Manish Pandey, even though hasn't played many games, has impressed after his Australia tour. Though even he has to show that he is a long term player, but for now, I would pick Pandey ahead of Rahul in my lower order batting over Rahul. And if Rohit and Dhawan are both available and going well, then might play both Rahul and Pandey, that is only if Rahul and Pandey are both looking good.

 

Pandey for me is the first choice at no. 5/6 than Rahul, for now.

Rahul's game is more suited for a No. 5 than a Manish Pandey.   Pandey is not a big hitter and  someone at No.5 will  have to bat in the slog over around 50% of the time.  Pandey's game is more suited for a top 4 batter.  

 

My issue with Rahul at No. 5 has more to do with his test technique getting messed up at that position.

 

Listening to the team management talk...Rahul is definitely the first choice in ODIs if one of Rahul and Pandey were to be picked.

[Cricketics]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Rahul's game is more suited for a No. 5 than a Manish Pandey.   Pandey is not a big hitter and  someone at No.5 will  have to bat in the slog over around 50% of the time.  Pandey's game is more suited for a top 4 batter.  

 

My issue with Rahul at No. 5 has more to do with his test technique getting messed up at that position.

 

Listening to the team management talk...Rahul is definitely the first choice in ODIs if one of Rahul and Pandey were to be picked.

I feel Pandey can be a good finisher too. Rahul is a real stroke maker and has scored plenty of runs in recent memory and hence we feel he can be a really good player to up the run rate later when we have few overs left. But at the same time, Pandey has been doing it from a while now. He too has shots and play as a finisher, even though not like Dhoni, but a pretty good fnisher. We have seen plenty of him in IPL. He can hit the ball and score at a good rate like Rahul, and at the same time, on bigger grounds, has enough sense to rotate and go for quick doubles to keep the run rate going.

 

It is a tough choice between the two, and I will surely taken the proven performer Pandey. I trust his abilities more over Rahul right now.

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

I feel Pandey can be a good finisher too. Rahul is a real stroke maker and has scored plenty of runs in recent memory and hence we feel he can be a really good player to up the run rate later when we have few overs left. But at the same time, Pandey has been doing it from a while now. He too has shots and play as a finisher, even though not like Dhoni, but a pretty good fnisher. We have seen plenty of him in IPL. He can hit the ball and score at a good rate like Rahul, and at the same time, on bigger grounds, has enough sense to rotate and go for quick doubles to keep the run rate going.

 

It is a tough choice between the two, and I will surely taken the proven performer Pandey. I trust his abilities more over Rahul right now.

Pandey is too inconsistent in one day matches.   He played all 5 ODIs vs NZ but his highest score was 28.  He threw away his wicket at least twice in non-slog overs.  His List A average is 36.   He is not that dependable for me.  He will be brilliant in one match but would fail  in few others.   

[Cricketics]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Pandey is too inconsistent in one day matches.   He played all 5 ODIs vs NZ but his highest score was 28.  He threw away his wicket at least twice in non-slog overs.  His List A average is 36.   He is not that dependable for me.  He will be brilliant in one match but would fail  in few others.   

Ya, he had a bad series against NZ. And hence I said above that everyone is earning their spot. And hence I wills ay again what I said about Nair earlier when everyone wanted to see him dropped for the 5th test after his poor 4th test dismissal. We need to give these guys more chance than just throw them away. Pandey has been tried, and he had a good series, followed by an average or poor series. Time for us to give him one more chance before throwing him. Player like him can be really handy in English conditions.

[rkt.india]

29 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

I saw Pant last year in Vijay Hazare trophy and he was not explosive as you are describing, but was taking his time and watching the ball. I actually enjoyed his innings until he gave it away. Though nerves could have played its part and he might not know how to go about as those were some of his first big games at that level. Pant against U19 bowlers and against our Ranji bowlers and International bowlers is too different thing. I would also give him a chance as opener, but we can not expect him to be explosive right away.

that was not the type of pitch where you could blow the bowlers away and those were his early days in senior cricket. He has always been known to be an explosive opener in junior cricket. His performance in the one day tournament before he was picked for U19 WC was out of the world. He was the highest run getter in that tournament and his strike rate was 154 and it was a 50 over tournament. Can understand SR of 150 in T20s, but he did that in a 50 over tournament.

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Ya, he had a bad series against NZ. And hence I said above that everyone is earning their spot. And hence I wills ay again what I said about Nair earlier when everyone wanted to see him dropped for the 5th test after his poor 4th test dismissal. We need to give these guys more chance than just throw them away. Pandey has been tried, and he had a good series, followed by an average or poor series. Time for us to give him one more chance before throwing him. Player like him can be really handy in English conditions.

Pandey will surely be in the scheme of things and won't be thrown away.

 

All this discussion is about the next ODI when there are 2 good new players fighting for the same spot.

 

 

[Cricketics]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

that was not the type of pitch where you could blow the bowlers away and those were his early days in senior cricket. He has always been known to be an explosive opener in junior cricket. His performance in the one day tournament before he was picked for U19 WC was out of the world. He was the highest run getter in that tournament and his strike rate was 154 and it was a 50 over tournament. Can understand SR of 150 in T20s, but he did that in a 50 over tournament.

Just what I mentioned in my post. He can be explosive at u19, but List A is a different ball game, and he will have to prove how explosive can he be when against teams which have 2 decent bowlers at a time.

I hope he continues that way. I want to actually see him in ODI'S first and then test. That is how the process should be.

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Just what I mentioned in my post. He can be explosive at u19, but List A is a different ball game, and he will have to prove how explosive can he be when against teams which have 2 decent bowlers at a time.

I hope he continues that way. I want to actually see him in ODI'S first and then test. That is how the process should be.

he has already showed that in IPL that he can be explosive against good quality bowlers too. He took Mustafizur Rahman apart in one match and in another match, he overshadowed Quinton Dekock, both opening together, scoring 69 of just 40 balls at an SR of 172. Those innings were clear indication of his ability and this Ranji season has only enhanced that reputation where he scored close to 1000 runs at an SR over 100. Don't think any batsman has ever done that in history of domestic cricket in India.

[Cricketics]

Just now, rkt.india said:

he has already showed that in IPL that he can be explosive against good quality bowlers too. He took Mustafizur Rahman apart in one match and in another match, he overshadowed Quinton Dekock, both opening together, scoring 69 of just 40 balls at an SR of 172. Those innings were clear indication of his ability and this Ranji season has only enhanced that reputation where he scored close to 1000 runs at an SR over 100. Don't think any batsman has ever done that in history of domestic cricket in India.

No one has, and hence we want to see him in ODI. Just feel that we shouldn't expect him to provide explosives right away. We will have to give him some time.

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

No one has, and hence we want to see him in ODI. Just feel that we shouldn't expect him to provide explosives right away. We will have to give him some time.

that I agree, but it is unfair to expect to give explosive starts immediately from any batsman we bring in as opener. They will all take time before they start doing that regularly.