Will Indian cricket die if BCCI withdraws from ICC?

[horizonspeaks]

30 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Biggest loser in all this is ECB.  They are the ones with the most to lose as and when the IPL expands its season duration.  If not today, in 5-8 years, you are going to see a 12 team IPL.  At least. India is too big a market to have just 8 teams.   And when that happens the IPL season is going to expand to 100 days.  That's going to be a big chunk of the "English" summer, that the top players in world cricket will be unavailable.  

 

Why do you think there's so much IPL hate in ECB and its associated minions?  They know this writing on the wall.  Stupid fools should have setup a proper league for themselves and staked a claim in the cricket calendar.  But they are still pottering around in their gardens, arguing about the 18 counties or whatever absurd number they have.  Good for us.  Bad for them.  

If I were ECB, I would have approached BCCI and talked to get a couple of teams (London Lions and Manchester Mavericks) in IPL and get some revenue out of it. That would be the best I could expect to keep in the long run. 

[horizonspeaks]

3 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Gambhir is a household name because of international cricket and not IPL.

Yes, the last meaningful cricket he played was in 2012. And he's still been watched, because of IPL. Imagine what happened to Kambli after he was dropped. Was he known and watched 5 years after he was dropped? This is even with only a single month of IPL. 

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, horizonspeaks said:

If I were ECB, I would have approached BCCI and talked to get a couple of teams (London Lions and Manchester Mavericks) in IPL and get some revenue out of it. That would be the best I could expect to keep in the long run. 

You are not far off.  Or Alternatively, Partner up with the BCCI in getting an annual Post-IPL Champions Cup with top 2 or 3 IPL teams, and top 2 ECB teams from their domestic T20 comp - rotate the hosting, share the proceeds.  Could have been a win-win for both parties.  ECB wouldn't have to give up too much additional time from its annual calendar to T20 cricket, but would get maximum compensation for the time it did give up, coupled with incentivizing performance in its domestic T20 competition.  Bottomline, It would have been way better for them to work with the BCCI, instead of declaring war on BCCI.    The Post-league champions tournament concept failed earlier, but will inevitably be revived.  Once the BBL, IPL etc figure out a more standardized and cost-effective way of running it.  And as of now, ECB is extremely well-placed to miss out being one of the founders, and will be limited to being one of the invitees.  

 

I feel really confident on predicting these 2 things happening in a 5-7 year time frame - double-digit number of IPL teams.  And a reboot of the Champions cup.  Question is, how will the IPL expansion affect the calendar?  Will it it creep into March, or go out further into May?  And which board(s) will control the champions cup.  By its very definition, the Champions cup does not involve countries, so the ICC has no chance of creeping in.  We need Lalit Modi back in BCCI.  I bet you, he would make all this happen pretty quickly.  

[horizonspeaks]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

You are not far off.  Or Alternatively, Partner up with the BCCI in getting an annual Post-IPL Champions Cup with top 2 or 3 IPL teams, and top 2 ECB teams from their domestic T20 comp - rotate the hosting, share the proceeds.  Could have been a win-win for both parties.  ECB wouldn't have to give up too much additional time from its annual calendar to T20 cricket, but would get maximum compensation for the time it did give up, coupled with incentivizing performance in its domestic T20 competition.  Bottomline, It would have been way better for them to work with the BCCI, instead of declaring war on BCCI.    The Post-league champions tournament concept failed earlier, but will inevitably be revived.  Once the BBL, IPL etc figure out a more standardized and cost-effective way of running it.  And as of now, ECB is extremely well-placed to miss out being one of the founders, and will be limited to being one of the invitees.  

 

I feel really confident on predicting these 2 things happening in a 5-7 year time frame - double-digit number of IPL teams.  And a reboot of the Champions cup.  Question is, how will the IPL expansion affect the calendar?  Will it it creep into March, or go out further into May?  And which board(s) will control the champions cup.  By its very definition, the Champions cup does not involve countries, so the ICC has no chance of creeping in.  We need Lalit Modi back in BCCI.  I bet you, he would make all this happen pretty quickly.  

I am not too hopeful on the champions cup. I think they would be better off even hosting a mini-IPL in England, where 8-12 teams play knock out over a week or so. BCCI was willing to host it in Ireland but ECB is spoiling that. 

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, horizonspeaks said:

I am not too hopeful on the champions cup. I think they would be better off even hosting a mini-IPL in England, where 8-12 teams play knock out over a week or so. BCCI was willing to host it in Ireland but ECB is spoiling that. 

Banjo ECB is going to pay for its hostility to Indian cricket.    And their kharida hua tattu PCB as well.  

[horizonspeaks]

10 minutes ago, sandeep said:

You are not far off.  Or Alternatively, Partner up with the BCCI in getting an annual Post-IPL Champions Cup with top 2 or 3 IPL teams, and top 2 ECB teams from their domestic T20 comp - rotate the hosting, share the proceeds.  Could have been a win-win for both parties.  ECB wouldn't have to give up too much additional time from its annual calendar to T20 cricket, but would get maximum compensation for the time it did give up, coupled with incentivizing performance in its domestic T20 competition.  Bottomline, It would have been way better for them to work with the BCCI, instead of declaring war on BCCI.    The Post-league champions tournament concept failed earlier, but will inevitably be revived.  Once the BBL, IPL etc figure out a more standardized and cost-effective way of running it.  And as of now, ECB is extremely well-placed to miss out being one of the founders, and will be limited to being one of the invitees.  

 

I feel really confident on predicting these 2 things happening in a 5-7 year time frame - double-digit number of IPL teams.  And a reboot of the Champions cup.  Question is, how will the IPL expansion affect the calendar?  Will it it creep into March, or go out further into May?  And which board(s) will control the champions cup.  By its very definition, the Champions cup does not involve countries, so the ICC has no chance of creeping in.  We need Lalit Modi back in BCCI.  I bet you, he would make all this happen pretty quickly.  

Your second part is interesting. If you look closely at the proposed schedule at the ICC meeting, the bilateral series will be such - 

9 teams play Test each other in a cycle of 2 years, i.e. 4 Test series per year.

13 teams play ODI each other in a cycle of 2 years, i.e. 6 ODI series per year. 

 

This means you should be done with 3 ODI + 1-3 Test series in a month, wrap up and play another in the next month. With rests, this should not take more than 6-7 months per year (3 months during monsoon, 3-4 months of winter). In 2016 India played ~12 Tests. 

 

Then there's a ICC tournament every year that takes 1 month. So, overall 8 months. India can shuffle teams and rest a few when needed. 

 

BCCI should expand IPL in October. That would still have a window. By 2023 IPL should be expanded, so that BCCI has a clear path forward without ICC before the new proposal is made for the next cycle. 

[horizonspeaks]

5 minutes ago, Stumped said:

How are the ECB spoiling the BCCI hosting a mini IPL in Ireland out of interest? Doubt it could draw crowds in Ireland anyway however.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/story/604267.html

 

I am not finding the original story though. This one notes - 

Quote

A hard line adopted by the Indian board towards English county players practising in India has its roots in a much deeper dispute arising from the ECB's refusal to allow IPL teams to play exhibition matches in Ireland and Scotland.

The ECB holds the broadcast rights for both Ireland and Scotland and used its right of veto over televised fixtures in those countries to prevent what it saw as IPL infiltration on its own territory.

Also -

http://m.mid-day.com/articles/indian-and-english-cricket-boards-clash-over-ipl/199867

Edited February 16, 2017 by horizonspeaks

[Zap_Brannigan]

This is what BCCI could do to get the money that the indian team deserves and its the perfect time to do it since next set of IPL rights is coming up and champions trophy and test championship is just around the corner.

 

1. Withdraw from all ICC tournaments and demand the indian telecast rights to all indian matches.

 

2. Have a long term plan for the IPL assuming ICC and other boards will be completely against international players joining IPL.

Example - Expand IPL to 4-5 months. None of this 2 games per day malarkey. Space it out a bit and double the number of games.Since other boards will not allow their players, just poach them. BCCI should recruit them on a long term contract. Say 5 years to 10 years contract where everyone is guaranteed a minimum something like half a million dollars for the next 5 or 10 years depending on their age.

 

So lets say BCCI puts 7 international players per team and 13 indian players on their recruit list. Thats about 100 millions dollars for 10 teams. teams can pick from this list and if they cross the half a million for a player, the players gets the rest and bcci gets the guarantee they paid. Since teams are expected to pay 80 million on the players, around 50 million that BCCI spent on the players, they will get back. So thats a 50 million loss. This is expected to increase as they recruit more fresh players and the some older players are not bid on.  But since there are more matches, more teams and no competition with International indian cricket, the IPL rights should atleast go for more than whats expected now i.e. 5 billion for the next 10 years. So BCCI can still make a hefty profit.

 

This may not poach the best english and australian players, but every other country will be gutted. With no indian team, ICC's telecast rights will be 30-50% of what it is. With no indian team touring, no more profit from selling the rights to India. BCCI has over half a billion dollars in bank. The others live indian tour to indian tour. How long will these boards last? they will come crawling back.

 

3. Start making plans for 2nd IPL or a ODI league. 

  

Just declare a full blown war on ICC and the other boards. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Zap_Brannigan

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Zap_Brannigan said:

This is what BCCI could do to get the money that the indian team deserves and its the perfect time to do it since next set of IPL rights is coming up and champions trophy and test championship is just around the corner.

 

1. Withdraw from all ICC tournaments and demand the indian telecast rights to all indian matches.

 

2. Have a long term plan for the IPL assuming ICC and other boards will be completely against international players joining IPL.

Example - Expand IPL to 4-5 months. None of this 2 games per day malarkey. Space it out a bit and double the number of games.Since other boards will not allow their players, just poach them. BCCI should recruit them on a long term contract. Say 5 years to 10 years contract where everyone is guaranteed a minimum something like half a million dollars for the next 5 or 10 years depending on their age.

 

So lets say BCCI puts 7 international players per team and 13 indian players on their recruit list. Thats about 100 millions dollars for 10 teams. teams can pick from this list and if they cross the half a million for a player, the players gets the rest and bcci gets the guarantee they paid. Since teams are expected to pay 80 million on the players, around 50 million that BCCI spent on the players, they will get back. So thats a 50 million loss. But since there are more matches, more teams and no competition with International indian cricket, the IPL rights should atleast go for more than whats expected now i.e. 5 billion for the next 10 years. So BCCI can still make a hefty profit.

 

This may not poach the best english and australian players, but every other country will be gutted. With no indian team, ICC's telecast rights will be 30-50% of what it is. With no indian team touring, no more profit from selling the rights to India. BCCI has over half a billion dollars in bank. The others like indian tour to indian tour. How long will these boards last? they will come crawling back.

 

3. Start making plans for 2nd IPL or a ODI league. 

  

 

Bit drastic there, Vladimir Lenin.  We don't need a revolution just yet.    But yes, BCCI needs to get its medium and long-term planning sorted.  And have proper preparation before negotiations proceed with the ICC.  The whole revenue distribution model, even if it involves $200 mm dollars, is still the secondary issue.  Bigger issue, is ensuring that BCCI creates a proper India home schedule from November through April/May.  And focuses hard on solidifying the primacy of the IPL as the top T20 league on the planet.  

 

Other issues of concern have already been pointed out - the ICC inserting a vague and expandable billable item for ICC expenses into the revenue model, as well as the BS about tour obligations.  India and other right-minded nations need to get the tour obligations to take into account scenarios such as apartheid and terrorism.   The proposed system would have generated penalty points and revenue for the apartheid South Africa regime when other countries stopped playing cricket with them.  

 

The best thing here, regardless of the ambush tactics adopted by ECB and the Manohar coterie, BCCI should be able to put together enough support within the ICC to work the issue out to its satisfaction.  The question is, what will they settle for.  

 

 

[Malcolm Merlyn]

54 minutes ago, Stumped said:

The ECB haven't had control of the broadcasting rights in Ireland for years now, if the BCCI thought it was financially sensible/possible they could easily have hosted IPL exhibition games there since.

 

Since when?Can you post a reference?

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, horizonspeaks said:

Your second part is interesting. If you look closely at the proposed schedule at the ICC meeting, the bilateral series will be such - 

9 teams play Test each other in a cycle of 2 years, i.e. 4 Test series per year.

13 teams play ODI each other in a cycle of 2 years, i.e. 6 ODI series per year. 

 

This means you should be done with 3 ODI + 1-3 Test series in a month, wrap up and play another in the next month. With rests, this should not take more than 6-7 months per year (3 months during monsoon, 3-4 months of winter). In 2016 India played ~12 Tests. 

 

Then there's a ICC tournament every year that takes 1 month. So, overall 8 months. India can shuffle teams and rest a few when needed. 

 

BCCI should expand IPL in October. That would still have a window. By 2023 IPL should be expanded, so that BCCI has a clear path forward without ICC before the new proposal is made for the next cycle. 

Having a separate set of games months apart doesn't really bolster the league.  Only way to justify it is a meta-league tournament.  Regular expansion makes sense only if its part of the "regular season" and "playoffs".  

 

There's opportunity here for other boards to work with BCCI while the IPL is still "new".  20 years from now, these doors will be closed.  SL Cricket or BD Cricket should negotiate and get into the IPL fielding 7 'home' players.  That would be an interesting addition to IPL and add some extra rivalry spice as well.   PCB can fuggedaboutit.  They can look for Khairat from their new massa - the ECB.  

[Vilander]

8 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Gambhir is a household name because of international cricket and not IPL.

What's your point boss. If India does not play international ICC cricket it will play an international team contracted to IPL so next Gambhir will come from there.

[horizonspeaks]

News : http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/92348/acrimony-with-bcci-is-now-history-says-haroon-lorgat-cricket-south-africas-chief

 

Now Haroon Lorgat takes on BCCI, indicates that he won't allow SA players to take part in IPL if BCCI doesn't reciprocate. 

 

Quote

If the BCCI refuses to lend its "support and blessing" to Cricket South Africa's newly-planned cricketing venture -the T20 Global Destination League - the South African board could "consider" if they should lend support in allowing their cricketers to participate in the IPL.

It's a big 'if ' that CSA's chief executive Haroon Lorgat is not willing to discuss yet. "I would not want to speculate on outcomes that we have not yet fully considered internally or with the BCCI," Lorgat told TOI in a chat to discuss CSA's upcoming T20 league for which a tender was floated last week.

 

Edited February 17, 2017 by horizonspeaks

[Trichromatic]

23 minutes ago, Vilander said:

What's your point boss. If India does not play international ICC cricket it will play an international team contracted to IPL so next Gambhir will come from there.

Yes, that's the point. BCCI doesn't need ICC. But in the current scenario, BCCI or IPL does need international cricket to survive. Without that revenue will dip massively and all this talk about IPL making more than world T20 won't mean much. 

 

BCCI can create alternate to ICC and try to create a parallel market, but it would be very difficult. IPL is at least 10-15 years away from the point where it can survive on it's own without international cricket and that too will require some very good adminstrators and businessmen to market it without that.

[horizonspeaks]

19 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Yes, that's the point. BCCI doesn't need ICC. But in the current scenario, BCCI or IPL does need international cricket to survive. Without that revenue will dip massively and all this talk about IPL making more than world T20 won't mean much. 

 

BCCI can create alternate to ICC and try to create a parallel market, but it would be very difficult. IPL is at least 10-15 years away from the point where it can survive on it's own without international cricket and that too will require some very good adminstrators and businessmen to market it without that.

Where would the revenue go? Other sports?

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, horizonspeaks said:

Where would the revenue go? Other sports?

It's not a fund which has to be allocated somewhere.

[horizonspeaks]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

It's not a fund which has to be allocated somewhere.

So all companies advertise because people watch it. If people watch it then advertisement, i.e. money will flow. Explain to me why would people not watch?

 

And if they don't watch they watch something else - more of other sports? 

Edited February 17, 2017 by horizonspeaks

[Vilander]

11 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Yes, that's the point. BCCI doesn't need ICC. But in the current scenario, BCCI or IPL does need international cricket to survive. Without that revenue will dip massively and all this talk about IPL making more than world T20 won't mean much. 

 

BCCI can create alternate to ICC and try to create a parallel market, but it would be very difficult. IPL is at least 10-15 years away from the point where it can survive on it's own without international cricket and that too will require some very good adminstrators and businessmen to market it without that.

dude, if ICC international matches are not possible then Champions league will be expanded with the blessings of friendly boards and it will become the primary international tournament for India, it will be expanded at say a test or ODI level to have a country vs country or multi nation tournament  Indians will continue to watch Indian players against Aus/SA/Sl/BD/WI players.