Canadian Sikh Politician handles the racist heckler

[G_B_]

and this guy is one slippery character. If up for leadership of the NDP. Would not be surprised if he staged this.

 

Was dead in the water before this incident.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democratic_Party_leadership_election,_2017

[Muloghonto]

19 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

Its ironic in a way

 

Congress sponsored the anti sikh riots and yet is also ruling punjab. One would have expected them to fade away. Yet at a time when they are diminishing all over India they are strong in Punjab.

 

Amrinder who quit Cong when it came to operation Bluestar and the riots is now governed by Rajiv's widow Sonia.

Because Punjab is more Anti-Akali Dal than pro-anybody. Punjabis are mad as hell at the failures in Akali Dal to curb the drug problem. BJP allied with them. hence lost.

 

[G_B_]

5 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Because Punjab is more Anti-Akali Dal than pro-anybody. Punjabis are mad as hell at the failures in Akali Dal to curb the drug problem. BJP allied with them. hence lost.

 

its true. Even though support BJP that Akali government was a cluster*. Deserved to go.

 

But i guess Punjabis this time atleast had option of AAP. I think Akalis+BJP got more votes than AAP (though not seats)

 

From what I gather the Sikh diaspora in Canada Australia and UK had heavily backed AAP with funds and manpower (volunteers). Somehow failed to take off.

 

Instead a party responsible for the heinous acts in 1984 swept the day...

 

 

[Muloghonto]

27 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

Recently concluded elections in Punjab was a surprise to the Sikh community here in Canada, people here were hoping for a change for good, expecting AAP for their first win in Punjab, lot of NRIs went to Punjab to campaign...so that a new party should be tried since it was the same old Congress or BJP in the past and nothing progressive was happening over there.

 

God knows wtf happened in the elections, computer rigged...Kejriwal mishandling of the Candidate or whatever.

 

In the past, Sikh Landlords in Punjab who were settled outside India were purchasing more land in Punjab and that kept the land value up....Since a last few years, that has changed...the Acreage prices have dropped, Affluent Sikhs here are investing in Canada & even in the USA.

 

So G_B_....I just want to know ....why do many educated people like you don't want to condemn the State sponsored Mass Genocide in 1984?

 

If most of you guys think that Sikhs deserved it...at least say it up front & with a good reason....But remaining silent about it  & not condemning it does give an indication that you guys approve it.

Because genocide is no joke of a charge. And for it to be genocide, it has to be systematic and administered by the government.

For eg, if the government told the police to 'stand down/look the other way' and general lawlessness prevail, i don't think you can accuse govt. of genocide - unless the goondas were sponsored by the government themselves.

Every breakdown of law and order -planned or unplanned- does not make it a genocide. Govt/entity ordering systematic killing of people, makes it so. 

And if proof is presented that the government ordered/comitted a genocide, i'd be happy to call it a genocide. 

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, Under_Score said:

And that's what exactly happened...Jagdish Tytler...HKL Bhagat and a few other Congress goon ministers sponsored the killings and instigated their goons to finish all Sikhs in Delhi....3 days of full freedom to kill in a Democracy.

You want to deny like many others...then the answer is obvious.

 

I don't want to deny. I have no interest to deny. I want proof for the bolded part. 

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

Talking about proof to be presented at a time when Govt controlled Media Doordarshan was the ONLY Indian media to report is a joke...lol

 

If you don't have proof, then you have no case. I realize they could've done it and destroyed evidence, but unless you can prove that they did it or destroyed evidence, i am sorry to say, we cannot claim genocide. Genocide is a serious charge, that requires evidence. Until that evidence comes, educated people will not call it genocide, due to lack of proof. 

 

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Under_Score said:

Look, corruption is so rampant in India...minorities have no chance of a fair treatment......that's why I'm happy to have left India a while ago and have a much better life in a REAL Democracy, you can keep supporting & backing Goon netas in India...that's your choice. 

I am not backing anyone. You asked me why i won't condemn 1984 as genocide and why other educated people won't- i gave you an answer as to why: because educated people do not label something as genocide, without proof. 

And you are biassed if you allege genocide without proof.

 

[Muloghonto]

10 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

Proof was suppressed by a corrupt Govt controlled Media....so from where can I get you the proof?

But you don't know that for a fact- or you would be able to prove obstruction of justice. You are running with a belief here. And for something serious, its immature to hold a view strongly, without proof. Especially something so serious like genocide.

 

10 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

All I can say is...I was living in Bangalore at the time, Ram Krishna Hedge was the then chief Minister of Karnataka and no mass murders happened in B'lore at the same time when it was carnage in Delhi & Kanpur.

I was living in Delhi at the time, bhai. Yes, i was very young, but not so young that i don't remember. I remember rampage of lot of Congress bhakts. I did not see any organized behaviour, but thats just my narrow, personal observation, as a kid. Indira died in Delhi. thats the difference between Delhi and Kt.

10 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

Ram Krishna Hedge belonged to the Janta party, he immediately asked the cops to protect Sikh minorities in Bangalore, I saw two cops standing in front of my house the day Indira Gandhi was assassinated...no one came & looted.

Sure. but if you want to compare inter-state, then you will have to show Sikhs being targeted in Congress dominated states too. 

 

10 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

Hope you get the picture now....Then opposition party chief minister made sure visible minorities were not harmed and so much happened in Delhi.

 

You still want to keep harping about proof....fine.

 

Yes, proof is very important for charges like genocide. You need proof. Some proof of govt tampering- which would actually be very hard to hide- in the 'obstruction of justice' sort of the way. Don't take it wrong- maybe because you are a Punjabi and overseas Punjabi, you've given in to the combo of actual Punjabis suffering + Anti-India mentality of many overseas Punjabi and from way before 1984. You may be right. I am not denying that. But 'maybes' don't make genocide charges. Just like i can't just 'maybe conspire to kill you'. those are emphatic charges that require some sort of proof.

 

Put it this way- nobody was snooping around turkey (media-wise), when they Genocided Armenians. that also happened almost a 100 years ago. Yet, Armenians have been able to produce some emphatic circumstantial evidence and testimonies that directly implicate turkish government & military. 

So go ahead, go find evidence, investigate the whole thing- do something to prove that the 'government wasnt paralyzed in immediate aftermath and thus, couldn't control a lot of congressi goons from going out of hand at the epicenter of the event. 

If you or anyone does, i will be the first one to condemn the government.

 

[Muloghonto]

13 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

You can type a friggin summary....simple question to you is...from where does the evidence originate? 

Answer is....from the independent media sources in the place the genocide happened....since there was none, so it's all a hush hush....I don't give a damn, you can keep posting denial fairy tales....for us Sikhs, it's a well know fact that it happened. 

 

Now go ahead & type another crappy paragraph asking for proof....what nonsense!!

False. If that was the case, Armenians would never be able to show turks genocided them. Coz that happened in turkey. 

 

I am not denying anything, i am simply saying, you are making a baseless allegation. You Sikhs are perhaps being manipulated by your religious folks into this - happens all the time during times of crisis and people wan to blame someone. Most of the time there is someone to blame. But in this case, you have no concrete reason, except belief that the government organized this.

As an Indian, you should know that sometimes, people go berserk and our government loses control. Unless you can show evidence, why should i think the government is guilty of such heinous stuff, just because 'you know what happened' ? 

If you know, share the knowledge and prove it. Make a case. Learn from the Armernians on how to do it. then go do it. 

 

You want people to believe somehting without proof. that is what the nonsense is. I am not even saying go find direct proof. Just show evidence of government control, directive, which Armenians have done. 

You Sikhs don't even have that - yet. So go ahead, try the proper way. 

[Muloghonto]

Answer me this- if the congress ordered such killings and coordinated it, why only in Delhi ? plenty of Sikhs live/lived in congress-dominated states back then too.....how many Sikhs were slaughtered in UP ?

[Ranvir]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

Answer me this- if the congress ordered such killings and coordinated it, why only in Delhi ? plenty of Sikhs live/lived in congress-dominated states back then too.....how many Sikhs were slaughtered in UP ?

There were many Sikhs killed in Uttar Pradesh and recently a mass grave was found of Sikhs killed in Haryana.

 

Until anyone is convicted of Sikh deaths in 1984 then Sikhs will never feel 100% Indian.

 

 

[Muloghonto]

26 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

There were many Sikhs killed in Uttar Pradesh and recently a mass grave was found of Sikhs killed in Haryana.

 

Until anyone is convicted of Sikh deaths in 1984 then Sikhs will never feel 100% Indian.

 

 

You don't speak for sikhs. Atleast, not Indian sikhs in our military and police. they feel 100% Indian is why they dominate our armed forces.

Agree it needs to be addressed. But you are showing typical non-desi Sikh mentality here, who probably also, laughably think, Sikhs are oppressed in India. there are genuine Khalistani a-holes who are just power-hungry sikhs. I know, coz i live in Vancouver and i know those rotten gurdwaras by name. I also know of a few in Londonistan. 

So if you turn it religious, i call it BS. BS non-desi khalistani nonsense. As i said and you promptly ran away/failed to address: follow the armenian genocide methodology. If they can make a case, almost 80-90 years since the event, which happened in turkey, where- i assure you, no 'foreign media' was present- so can you guys- that is, if its not just khalistani fanning religious flames for personal gain, based out of Vancouver/Canada-Londonistan. 

If there are mass graves found, go hire a lawyer, make a case vs Indian govt. in Hague for genocide. Seems pretty straightforward, not the first time it'd be proven true/false either.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Ranvir]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

You don't speak for sikhs. Atleast, not Indian sikhs in our military and police. they feel 100% Indian is why they dominate our armed forces.

Agree it needs to be addressed. But you are showing typical non-desi Sikh mentality here, who probably also, laughably think, Sikhs are oppressed in India. there are genuine Khalistani a-holes who are just power-hungry sikhs. I know, coz i live in Vancouver and i know those rotten gurdwaras by name. I also know of a few in Londonistan. 

So if you turn it religious, i call it BS. BS non-desi khalistani nonsense. As i said and you promptly ran away/failed to address: follow the armenian genocide methodology. If they can make a case, almost 80-90 years since the event, which happened in turkey, where- i assure you, no 'foreign media' was present- so can you guys- that is, if its not just khalistani fanning religious flames for personal gain, based out of Vancouver/Canada-Londonistan. 

If there are mass graves found, go hire a lawyer, make a case vs Indian govt. in Hague for genocide. Seems pretty straightforward, not the first time it'd be proven true/false either.

Our armed forces? Are you living permanently in Vancouver or do you plan on going back to India? Which one are you? Indian or Canadian?

 

I never mentioned a single thing about Khalistan so don't get all hot and bothered.

 

Sikhs growing up in a Hindu majority country with a Hindu controlled media will obviously have a different viewpoint than people who do not grow up with these things. The media controls the way people think in every country in the world.

 

Have you ever heard of HS Phoolka he is trying all legal means to get justice for the riot victims but the justice system in India is a joke. My own family have a court case in India regarding disputed property going on since 2010, India is a joke in these regards.

 

As for Londonistan have you ever looked at the demographics of Hyderabad, Meerut, Kerala? And that is all your own fault.

[G_B_]

6 hours ago, Under_Score said:

Recently concluded elections in Punjab was a surprise to the Sikh community here in Canada, people here were hoping for a change for good, expecting AAP for their first win in Punjab, lot of NRIs went to Punjab to campaign...so that a new party should be tried since it was the same old Congress or BJP in the past and nothing progressive was happening over there.

 

God knows wtf happened in the elections, computer rigged...Kejriwal mishandling of the Candidate or whatever.

 

In the past, Sikh Landlords in Punjab who were settled outside India were purchasing more land in Punjab and that kept the land value up....Since a last few years, that has changed...the Acreage prices have dropped, Affluent Sikhs here are investing in Canada & even in the USA.

 

So G_B_....I just want to know ....why do many educated people like you don't want to condemn the State sponsored Mass Genocide in 1984?

 

If most of you guys think that Sikhs deserved it...at least say it up front & with a good reason....But remaining silent about it  & not condemning it does give an indication that you guys approve it.

 

i fully condemn them...

 

you need to get that chip off your shoulder. For the record there have been many who have been punished via the courts for the cases in 1984. Many more the cases are in the courts. 

 

I am from Mumbai and the shiv sena and Bal T ensured that nothing happened to the sikh community. So the people of Delhi should not be equated to that of whole India.

 

 

[G_B_]

one thing will agree

 

the judiciary is a joke.

[AmreekanDesi]

18 hours ago, PBN said:

you're mixing up two things.  the 1984 'riots or better yet the state sponsored genocide/massacre' was backed up by the government. i think even in india everyone knows that it was state sponsored at some level with the cops just looking and letting the goons run wild.  Rajiv gandhi even went on record saying that " "When a giant tree falls, the earth below shakes. "

It wasn't a genocide

 

Just cause some clueless NRI Sikhs,who are seperatists to begin with, call it a genocide doesn't make it one 

[Ranvir]

7 minutes ago, AmreekanDesi said:

It wasn't a genocide

 

Just cause some clueless NRI Sikhs,who are seperatists to begin with, call it a genocide doesn't make it one 

The government turned a blind eye to the violence and also instigated it. It was very organised.

[G_B_]

it was organised

 

upper levels of congress or tier 1 leaders turned a blind eye

 

tier 2 leaders in delhi Haryana western up  etc carrier out the attacks. Leading upto the 1984 massacre there was simmering tension between the jat Haryanvi and the Sikhs over the attacks carried out on hindus during the khalistani movement. A large chunk of Hindus fled to Haryana and Delhi and were refugees or lived with relatives.

 

I don't think Rajiv Gandhi took part in the planning. But he did not stand in their way either

[AmreekanDesi]

2 hours ago, Ranvir said:

The government turned a blind eye to the violence and also instigated it. It was very organised.

yea 200-3000 people (mostly khalistani terrorist) dying doesnt classify as genocide

[rageaddict]

Some very disgusting anti-Sikh posts in this thread. 

 

I agree that no Sikh can ever feel 100% Indian if he/she reads an account of what the Sikhs went through during the 80s. First,  it was an attack on the Golden Temple followed by the Brutal killings of innocent and helpless people in National Capital of the country and then a decade long series of Mass Killings by the Armed Forces in Punjab with zero accountability.  Moreover,  the party responsible for the Sikh massacre was unanimously voted to Power in the elections that followed.

 

Youngsters would be taken into custody and whole families punished on mere suspicions , many mass graves of Sikhs killed in fake encounters were recovered 

 

Personally,  I go out of my way to avoid reading anything about the events of 1984 or watching any documentaries related to it because it saddens me to imagine how much ordinary Sikhs suffered at the hands of the ruling government and the Army. I'm glad that the Anti Sikh riots and Mass killings by Security Agencies never became a hot topic for the media unlike the Godhra Riots as constantly recalling those events without a hope for justice only keeps the fire of hatred burning. I hope the coming generations of Sikhs continue to learn as less as possible about the dark period of the 80s, unfortunately though the storming of the Golden Temple by the Indian Army is something which will continue to be passed over to  future generations.

Edited September 15, 2017 by rageaddict