Performance of Asian bowlers in South Africa

[Gollum]

@rkt.india Was the 2014 Wellington test where BMac got a 300 also a difficult track because we got them all out before tea on day 1?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11825/scorecard/667653/New-Zealand-vs-India-2nd-Test

 

Or do you mean to say that all pitches/conditions stay the same for all 5 days of a test match?

[Gollum]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

where did you get asif being 1.93 meters?

Google but I always knew he was a very tall bowler, got the exact number from the net.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Gollum

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Google but I always knew he was a very tall bowler, got the exact number from the net.

google is wrong in this aspect. Google shows Umesh Yadav 1.87 meter who at best is 1.75 to 1.80 meters.  asif was at best 1.88 meters. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@rkt.india Was the 2014 Wellington test where BMac got a 300 also a difficult track because we got them all out before tea on day 1?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11825/scorecard/667653/New-Zealand-vs-India-2nd-Test

 

Or do you mean to say that all pitches/conditions stay the same for all 5 days of a test match?

no but that Karachi pitch still had something for bowlers. we did not have the kind of bowlers to utilize the seam movement. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by rkt.india

[Muloghonto]

18 hours ago, Gollum said:

Srinath was a beast, most under rated pacer ever. Look at Sreesanth's figures, delivered our only 2 wins there , would have won us the series in Cape Town 2011 but the obese wicket keeper captain lost his marbles midway and derailed our campaign. 

 

LOL at Zaheer Khan, most over rated bowler on Planet Earth. Mediocre bowler who was absolute **** for 80% of his career and always the bridesmaid to the likes of Ishant, RP and Sree even in his so called peak years (2007-11). God knows what the media and fans see in him that they compare him with legends like Anderson, Kapil and Srinath . 

No, he was not. The only underrated aspect of Srinath was his speed. He was genuine express, but got classified as fast-medium.

Beyond that, he was not a smart bowler, nor did he have much control or a fast bowler's mentality. Probably his biggest weakness, was his lack of control over his stock delivery- the inswinger. Too many times he'd bowl an inswinger on the 5th stump line and make it miss the top of off, only to follow it up with an inswinger on the off stump line, full-ish and on the batsman's pads, tickled fine. Did not know how to use a good bouncer either. Overall, a gifted but very mediocre bowler.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Muloghonto

[Gollum]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

where did you get asif being 1.93 meters? Karachi did not flatten out in 2nd innings, we just did not have the bowlers to utilize seam. Both Pathan and Zak was swing bowlers, not seam.

Doesn't mean you let opposition get to 600 

Our bowlers played many times in SA and Aus, 2 countries where the ball is known to seam, did we ever concede 600 a single time in the 3rd innings of a test match played on a seaming track? 

That Karachi pitch became a patta after the 1st 2 innings, FACT. We lost the test match because of scorecard pressure and Asif's wizardry FACT. 

[Muloghonto]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

google is wrong in this aspect. Google shows Umesh Yadav 1.87 meter who at best is 1.75 to 1.80 meters. 

And you know this how ?

 

[Gollum]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

google is wrong in this aspect. Google shows Umesh Yadav 1.87 meter who at best is 1.75 to 1.80 meters. 

Ok bhai, maaf kar. Pollock was taller than Asif, Asif was only a green track bully, Karachi was a seaming wicket when Pak were batting 2nd time around........I concede defeat. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Gollum

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Doesn't mean you let opposition get to 600 

Our bowlers played many times in SA and Aus, 2 countries where the ball is known to seam, did we ever concede 600 a single time in the 3rd innings of a test match played on a seaming track? 

That Karachi pitch became a patta after the 1st 2 innings, FACT. We lost the test match because of scorecard pressure and Asif's wizardry FACT. 

Asif did get seam movement. how do you get seam movement on a flat pitch? Can you tell me how? You cant judge a pitch until both teams have bowled that is the golden rule to judge a pitch.

[Gollum]

5 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

No, he was not. The only underrated aspect of Srinath was his speed. He was genuine express, but got classified as fast-medium.

Beyond that, he was not a smart bowler, nor did he have much control or a fast bowler's mentality. Probably his biggest weakness, was his lack of control over his stock delivery- the inswinger. Too many times he'd bowl an inswinger on the 5th stump line and make it miss the top of off, only to follow it up with an inswinger on the off stump line, full-ish and on the batsman's pads, tickled fine. Did not know how to use a good bouncer either. Overall, a gifted but very mediocre bowler.

 

 

Umesh is a mediocre bowler, Ishant is mediocre, RP Singh was mediocre.....Srinath is not mediocre by any stretch of imagination. You could say he underachieved in spite of bucketloads of talent but please don't put a mediocre tag alongside his name. He gave us more memorable spells of bowling than any other quick after him (I never saw Kapil live). 

[rkt.india]

16 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

And you know this how ?

 

because there is something called observation and some people can do that better than others. 1.87 meters mean 6 feet 1"+ while this Indian team only has one pacer over 6 that is Ishant.  All else are under 6 feet.

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by rkt.india

[Gollum]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Asif did get seam movement. how do you get seam movement on a flat pitch? Can you tell me how? You cant judge a pitch until both teams have bowled that is the golden rule to judge a pitch.

Steyn gets seam movement on flat decks. I read Hadlee could do the same in his prime. 

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Steyn gets seam movement on flat decks. I read Hadlee could do the same in his prime. 

no. Syeyn got clobbered on chennai patta in 2010 when Sehwag scored 300, so, no, he does not. 

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

i think karachi could be  a bit like durban ,they say when the tide comes in it starts to aid the bowlers ,dont understand how

Durban has changed. it is a slow pitch now. last quick pitch i saw in Durban was in 2010. it is not the same anymore. Steyn and Philander did nothing with the new ball on our last tour at durban. it was dry but reverse came in to play early due to dryness and Steyn ran through our middle order with reverse.

Edited January 4, 2018 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

even karachi is slow ,i implied movement not pace

but Durban does not have much movement these days.  Steyn and Philander did nothing with the new ball on our last tour at Durban. neither our pacers did much. it was dry but reverse came in to play early due to dryness and Steyn ran through our middle order with reverse.

[Muloghonto]

41 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

because there is something called observation and some people can do that better than others. 1.87 meters mean 6 feet 1"+ while this Indian team only has one pacer over 6 that is Ishant.  All else are under 6 feet.

 

Observation from TV, with no reference point or did you actually stand next to him ?

 

[Muloghonto]

39 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

how do you know this

From watching him practically his whole career.

 

[Muloghonto]

43 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Umesh is a mediocre bowler, Ishant is mediocre, RP Singh was mediocre.....Srinath is not mediocre by any stretch of imagination. You could say he underachieved in spite of bucketloads of talent but please don't put a mediocre tag alongside his name. He gave us more memorable spells of bowling than any other quick after him (I never saw Kapil live). 

Sorry, Umesh, Ishant, RP singh are not mediocre. Mediocre means average- these guys are WAY BELOW average. Srinath was mediocre. during his time, he was a very average bowler. I can think of loads of names in the 90s better than him- he would've struggled to crack the playing XI of Australia, Pakistan, South Africa, West Indies and maybe even England. That makes him mediocre.

 

[Gollum]

37 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

no. Syeyn got clobbered on chennai patta in 2010 when Sehwag scored 300, so, no, he does not. 

Basing this on one match are we? Same Steyn ripped us apart on the Nagpur patta in 2010. 

[Gollum]

10 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Sorry, Umesh, Ishant, RP singh are not mediocre. Mediocre means average- these guys are WAY BELOW average. Srinath was mediocre. during his time, he was a very average bowler. I can think of loads of names in the 90s better than him- he would've struggled to crack the playing XI of Australia, Pakistan, South Africa, West Indies and maybe even England. That makes him mediocre.

 

90s was a great era for fast bowling, those 4 teams (not England, please tell me you were joking about them) you mentioned had some of the greatest quicks in the entire history of the game. Just because Srinath wasn't as good as Ambrose, Mcgrath, Donald, Akram doesn't mean he was mediocre because many 90s bowlers from those 4 teams would make the all time XIs of their respective sides and all those 4 sides have rich fast bowling history. Srinath may have been the 10th best quick of the 90s according to you, but according to me he would be a top 3 bowler of this decade. As a parallel example in tennis just because Stan and Andy have been bridesmaids to the big 3 for their entire career doesn't make them mediocre. If the next generation of weak era players start winning 6-7 majors I won't automatically look at the Swiss and Scott and bemoan how mediocre they were !!!!

Edited January 4, 2018 by Gollum