So, who was the better captain throughout the CT ?

[bleaf27]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

In CT, favs have not won all the time. In fact, in this tournament both BD and Pak made it to the SF

 

Ind did reach the final, did beat Pak and SA in the group games where the two teams looked clueless. You havn't praised Kohli's captaincy there. Vs BD, Ind played superbly to win by a handsome margin, while Pak was in a spot of bother at one stage vs Eng 

 

Ppl putting their views are ignorant about your trolling habits and put their thoughts w/o considering your intensions to somehow attack players of Ind team 

 

 

Ofcourse they do not win all the time , hence the concept of overachivement and underachivement -  If you cannot grasp such a simple concept , Not sure how else to break it to you.

India made it to the finals not because of his captaincy but despite of his captaincy  -  His captaincy has been downright awful in the whole CT -  his batting has been good but not his captaincy.   Against BD - he played the wrong combination - he was lucky that Jadhav picked a wicket and his fault of picking the wrong squad did not get exposed as badly as today.

Well that's between the other posters and me sharing our views , your advocacy is certainly isn't required , you can make your way out from this post as you haven't certainly put anything worthwhile forth 

[Khota]

Definitely not Kohli. He should be blamed for this loss. It was on him and no one else.

[zen]

1 minute ago, bleaf27 said:

Ofcourse they do not win all the time , hence the concept of overachivement and underachivement -  If you cannot grasp such a simple concept , Not sure how else to break it to you.

India made it to the finals not because of his captaincy but despite of his captaincy  -  His captaincy has been downright awful in the whole CT -  his batting has been good but not his captaincy.   Against BD - he played the wrong combination - he was lucky that Jadhav picked a wicket and his fault of picking the wrong squad did not get exposed as badly as today.

Well that's between the other posters and me sharing our views , your advocacy is certainly isn't required , you can make your way out from this post as you haven't certainly put anything worthwhile forth 

I agree with you on many of the points but then Pak could have won despite Sarfaraz captaincy too 

 

And if the answer to the following queztion is "yes", it would show what I m saying - "Do you want Kohli replaced as captain including in tests?" (I have skimmed through your exchanges in one of the threads)

[bleaf27]

Just now, zen said:

I agree with you on many of the points but then Pak could have won despite Sarfaraz captaincy too 

 

And if the answer to the following queztion is "yes", it would show what I m saying - "Do you want Kohli replaced as captain including in tests?" (I have skimmed through your exchanges in one of the threads)

Not despite but because. 

• Sarfaraz as a captain did not hold his team back -  He sat with the coach/management and chose to change team compositions after the 1st loss right away   kicked Ahmed Shehzad out
• Backed Rumman Raees , Fakhar .  Despite good performance by Rumman - still sat him out . Kept Fakhar grounded despite his good performance .  Kohli on the other hand went ga-ga over Yuvraj's 50 against Pakistan and was giggling over his best friend
• Azhar Mehmood in post match said - we looked at Kohli's tapes and his weakness on 4th stump line -  they did their homework.
• What did Kohli learn from SL loss and BD milking the Indian spinners - Ashwin and Jadeja ?   Was he afraid to ask them to sit out for the final despite knowing the fact that Pak plays spinners well and Ashwin and Jadeja both would be redundant ?
• Sarfaraz used different line up for different oppositions -  perfect way to maximize your resources.  Kohli stuck to the same 11

I am not sure whether he should be replaced as captain in Tests -  his numbers are very inflated primarily due to his numerous home series wins.   Let him play test series in Aus / Eng and I can give you a better answer. Quite clear though - Kohli isn't a good leader .   His fans would use his home test win numbers to defend him but if outside the subcontinent he cannot lead as a captain -  misses cues of whether to field or bat /  what line up to use / how to use the right combination / how to rotate his bowlers -    you can judge for yourself 

[WC2011INDIA]

11 minutes ago, bleaf27 said:

Not despite but because. 

• Sarfaraz as a captain did not hold his team back -  He sat with the coach/management and chose to change team compositions after the 1st loss right away   kicked Ahmed Shehzad out
• Backed Rumman Raees , Fakhar .  Despite good performance by Rumman - still sat him out . Kept Fakhar grounded despite his good performance .  Kohli on the other hand went ga-ga over Yuvraj's 50 against Pakistan and was giggling over his best friend
• Azhar Mehmood in post match said - we looked at Kohli's tapes and his weakness on 4th stump line -  they did their homework.
• What did Kohli learn from SL loss and BD milking the Indian spinners - Ashwin and Jadeja ?   Was he afraid to ask them to sit out for the final despite knowing the fact that Pak plays spinners well and Ashwin and Jadeja both would be redundant ?
• Sarfaraz used different line up for different oppositions -  perfect way to maximize your resources.  Kohli stuck to the same 11

I am not sure whether he should be replaced as captain in Tests -  his numbers are very inflated primarily due to his numerous home series wins.   Let him play test series in Aus / Eng and I can give you a better answer. Quite clear though - Kohli isn't a good leader .   His fans would use his home test win numbers to defend him but if outside the subcontinent he cannot lead as a captain -  misses cues of whether to field or bat /  what line up to use / how to use the right combination / how to rotate his bowlers -    you can judge for yourself 

Virat and team were too busy holidaying, babysitting, attending functions, charities, restaurants and parties. They deservedly lost. The playing 11 barring Hardik was pathetic yesterday.  Sab saake bhaang peeke aaye the.

[zen]

2 hours ago, bleaf27 said:

Not despite but because. 

• Sarfaraz as a captain did not hold his team back -  He sat with the coach/management and chose to change team compositions after the 1st loss right away   kicked Ahmed Shehzad out
• Backed Rumman Raees , Fakhar .  Despite good performance by Rumman - still sat him out . Kept Fakhar grounded despite his good performance .  Kohli on the other hand went ga-ga over Yuvraj's 50 against Pakistan and was giggling over his best friend
• Azhar Mehmood in post match said - we looked at Kohli's tapes and his weakness on 4th stump line -  they did their homework.
• What did Kohli learn from SL loss and BD milking the Indian spinners - Ashwin and Jadeja ?   Was he afraid to ask them to sit out for the final despite knowing the fact that Pak plays spinners well and Ashwin and Jadeja both would be redundant ?
• Sarfaraz used different line up for different oppositions -  perfect way to maximize your resources.  Kohli stuck to the same 11

I am not sure whether he should be replaced as captain in Tests -  his numbers are very inflated primarily due to his numerous home series wins.   Let him play test series in Aus / Eng and I can give you a better answer. Quite clear though - Kohli isn't a good leader .   His fans would use his home test win numbers to defend him but if outside the subcontinent he cannot lead as a captain -  misses cues of whether to field or bat /  what line up to use / how to use the right combination / how to rotate his bowlers -    you can judge for yourself 

A. What evidence do you have of Kohli holding its players back? It can be argued that he backs his players

 

B. There is no evidence that Sarfaraz may have not done that in private (media shy?).  And whether praising your team is a bad idea

 

I read tons of books. In fact, I m currently reading over 100 books (will take time to finish them) and would recommed books such as Drive, which I skimmed through as I can't finish everything, for you to gain better understanding of motivation levels

 

For performing under pressure, there is a book by the same name

 

C. Should have gone with 3rd seamer, I agree. But in the context of this discussion, Pak went with 2 spinners too

 

D.  There is no evidence that constantly changing 11s is always a good idea. Some of the changes in Pak were forced due to injury. Kohli in fact replaced Yadav with a spinner, not a good move, but he made changes so again your assessment is not accurate

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by zen

[bleaf27]

1 minute ago, WC2011INDIA said:

Virat and team were too busy holidaying, babysitting, attending functions, charities, restaurants and parties. They deservedly lost. The playing 11 barring Hardik was pathetic yesterday.  Sab saake bhaang peeke aaye the.

Exactly.

Pakistan team look hungry ( no pun intended) ,  they want to be the next superstars and make their names in the cricketing world . They played with passion and looked like they wanted this more than anything else in the world - they wanted to prove something -

Indian team was playing as they have nothing left to prove - their names are already stitched in history books ....   .  Kohli seemsed more joyous than Sararaz after the game - joking around , now once his shopping list is done , he'd make his way back and shoot couple commercials and make sure there isn't any dent on the wallet 

[CG]

Sarfaraz has to be given credit.

[cricketfan28]

None.

[bleaf27]

3 hours ago, zen said:

A. What evidence do you have of Kohli holding its players back? It can be argued that he backs his players

 

B. There is no evidence that Sarfaraz may have not done that in private (media shy?).  And whether praising your team is a bad idea

 

I read tons of books. In fact, I m currently reading over 100 books (will take time to finish them) and would recommed books such as Drive, which I skimmed through as I can't finish everything, for you to gain better understanding of motivation levels

 

For performing under pressure, there is a book by the same name

 

C. Should have gone with 3rd seamer, I agree. But in the context of this discussion, Pak went with 2 spinners too

 

D.  There is no evidence that constantly changing 11s is always a good idea. Some of the changes in Pak were forced due to injury. Kohli in fact replaced Yadav with a spinner, not a good move, but he made changes so again your assessment is not accurate

 

No evidence of Kohli holding players back but Kohli had better cards in his kitty.   His team is more skilled , quite simple.   If he is backing his players great but it is equally important to see the bigger picture and sit your players down when they cannot bring their A game - happens to every player.   

 

Sarfaraz what he does behind closed doors is open to speculation , at least in front of Media where each statement is run on new channel on a loop for 3 days -   you need to be careful.   Kohli's statements on Yuvraj to media post his 50 vs  Sarfaraz take on Rumman and Fakhar post their performances is a perfect example.

Pak went with Shadab who has done decently in the CT  -  Ashwin and Jadeja did not - so if they were not producing they should have sat one out.  This was the take home point after games with SL/BD . He missed the ball completely. 

 

There is no definite evidence but there is evidence that rotating your players or playing your best 11 gives you the best chance to win - Sarfaraz showed that.  Except Amir - Fakhar / Rumman / Shadab / Junaid all were rotated according to who they are playing against.  Kohli replaced Yadav -  every change is not necessarily a right change -  Did he have the guts to ask Yuvi to sit out ?  Did he had the guts to ask Jadeja or Ashwin to sit out after BD/SL  ?     Sarfraz asked Rumman to sit out even after a good performance because he did not fit in the best 11 .   Amir didn't play exceptionally well against India in the first game but he still backed Amir - because Amir is a match winner , Kohli unnecessarily backed Jadeja / Ashwin  - if he had read the pitch and the ease with which every team has been handling these spinners , He would have showed some sense.  Kohli did not field the best 11 .    

Edited June 19, 2017 by bleaf27

[zen]

8 hours ago, bleaf27 said:

No evidence of Kohli holding players back but Kohli had better cards in his kitty.   His team is more skilled , quite simple.   If he is backing his players great but it is equally important to see the bigger picture and sit your players down when they cannot bring their A game - happens to every player.   

 

Sarfaraz what he does behind closed doors is open to speculation , at least in front of Media where each statement is run on new channel on a loop for 3 days -   you need to be careful.   Kohli's statements on Yuvraj to media post his 50 vs  Sarfaraz take on Rumman and Fakhar post their performances is a perfect example.

Pak went with Shadab who has done decently in the CT  -  Ashwin and Jadeja did not - so if they were not producing they should have sat one out.  This was the take home point after games with SL/BD . He missed the ball completely. 

 

There is no definite evidence but there is evidence that rotating your players or playing your best 11 gives you the best chance to win - Sarfaraz showed that.  Except Amir - Fakhar / Rumman / Shadab / Junaid all were rotated according to who they are playing against.  Kohli replaced Yadav -  every change is not necessarily a right change -  Did he have the guts to ask Yuvi to sit out ?  Did he had the guts to ask Jadeja or Ashwin to sit out after BD/SL  ?     Sarfraz asked Rumman to sit out even after a good performance because he did not fit in the best 11 .   Amir didn't play exceptionally well against India in the first game but he still backed Amir - because Amir is a match winner , Kohli unnecessarily backed Jadeja / Ashwin  - if he had read the pitch and the ease with which every team has been handling these spinners , He would have showed some sense.  Kohli did not field the best 11 .    

So there is not much evidence. Your comments appear to be based on hindsight and/or opinion on how things should be w/o having too much info on modern research on what motivates people 

 

2nd, we have no idea what some other captain could have done. MS, for e.g., may not even have played Yadav in the first game 

 

But I agree, some of it with the benefit of hindsight, that Ind could have done better both strategically and tactically. However, the team chosen, while not perfect, was still good enough to beat Pak. Comparision with Sarfaraz is unwarranted

Edited June 19, 2017 by zen

[WC2011INDIA]

7 hours ago, bleaf27 said:

No evidence of Kohli holding players back but Kohli had better cards in his kitty.   His team is more skilled , quite simple.   If he is backing his players great but it is equally important to see the bigger picture and sit your players down when they cannot bring their A game - happens to every player.   

 

Sarfaraz what he does behind closed doors is open to speculation , at least in front of Media where each statement is run on new channel on a loop for 3 days -   you need to be careful.   Kohli's statements on Yuvraj to media post his 50 vs  Sarfaraz take on Rumman and Fakhar post their performances is a perfect example.

Pak went with Shadab who has done decently in the CT  -  Ashwin and Jadeja did not - so if they were not producing they should have sat one out.  This was the take home point after games with SL/BD . He missed the ball completely. 

 

There is no definite evidence but there is evidence that rotating your players or playing your best 11 gives you the best chance to win - Sarfaraz showed that.  Except Amir - Fakhar / Rumman / Shadab / Junaid all were rotated according to who they are playing against.  Kohli replaced Yadav -  every change is not necessarily a right change -  Did he have the guts to ask Yuvi to sit out ?  Did he had the guts to ask Jadeja or Ashwin to sit out after BD/SL  ?     Sarfraz asked Rumman to sit out even after a good performance because he did not fit in the best 11 .   Amir didn't play exceptionally well against India in the first game but he still backed Amir - because Amir is a match winner , Kohli unnecessarily backed Jadeja / Ashwin  - if he had read the pitch and the ease with which every team has been handling these spinners , He would have showed some sense.  Kohli did not field the best 11 .    

In the PC he said with so much authority that he has no regrets in the playing 11 and they were the best for the job. LOLWA. such an arrogant fool.

[Sandeep99]

Such a good batsman but no common sense as a captain. Feel sorry!