So, who was the better captain throughout the CT ?

[bleaf27]

Being a captain is about being a Leader ,  motivating your team and leading from the front with whatever resources you've been given.

Kohli came into the competition with  -  Dhawan / Rohit / Jadeja / Bumrah / Bhuvi , Himself as a batsman and tremendous international / IPL experience. Friendships and personal feelings >  Pitch conditions / opposition ?   Chose to field in a Final ? 

 

Sarfaraz  -  5 / 6 new players , Very limited big tournament experience ,  Uncapped players , A number 8 ranked team which lost the 1st game terribly.  Chose to rotate his players for each game -  did not shy about sitting superstars like Ahmed Shehzad out.  Strategized according to the pitch / opponent.

[ThePhenomenal1]

Definitely Sarfaraz.

 

Got lucky in the SL game but got his team over the line. Wasn't scared to make changes and did what he needed to do to win. Something dhoni used to do in the young days. Nowadays india is a buddy club. 

[vvvslaxman]

Pakistan bowlers always respond in crunch situations. Typically they would go missing against Indians. Today was not that day  Aamir made sure India lost all 3 of them as even one can help India cross over the line.

[bleaf27]

11 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Pakistan bowlers always respond in crunch situations. Typically they would go missing against Indians. Today was not that day  Aamir made sure India lost all 3 of them as even one can help India cross over the line.

Thing is despite being a new captain  - Sarfaraz sat out Ahemad Shehzad  -  He didn't play favorites.  He did what the team needed.

Kohli is playing friends-friends -   giving giggly statements post Yuvi scoring 50 in the 1st match .  Got Embarassed by SL/BD and still learned nothing.   

 

[zen]

A random comparison thread 

 

• On bowling first: We don't know what Pak would have done if it had won the toss. Looking at the trend in the competition, many teams would have bowled first 
• On rotating players: Could have tried replacing / rotating one of Yuvi / Jadhav. Should have played Shami / Yadav, if not both, in place of one of the spinners / Yuvi / Jadhav 

However, Ind team is relatively more settled than Pak's so I don't see the point of such random comparisons. A SA African fan may start a thread comparing Sarfaraz with ABDV or Smith with Mortaza

 

 

[Rasgulla]

Virat is clueless.. hands down sarfraz

[bleaf27]

6 minutes ago, zen said:

A random comparison thread 

 

• On bowling first: We don't know what Pak would have done if it had won the toss. Looking at the trend in the competition, many teams would have bowled first 
• On rotating players: Could have tried replacing / rotating one of Yuvi / Jadhav. Should have played Shami / Yadav, if not both, in place of one of the spinners / Yuvi / Jadhav 

However, Ind team is relatively more settled than Pak's so I don't see the point of such random comparisons. A SA African fan may start a thread comparing Sarfaraz with ABDV or Smith with Mortaza

 

 

Random Comparison would be Comparing Morgan and Smith - again your analytical skills give it away so ill simplify

Comparing Kohli   - Who has been touted as an amazing captain , Leading a team filled with superstars favorites to win the CT  - Goliath

Sarfaraz captaining a number 8 ranked team with no superstars and 5-6 uncapped players , not expected to make it to the finals -  David 

Hence , the comparison   - I think I simplified it for you enough.

 

• When in a final , most teams tend to bat first.  Any analyst will argue in favor of bating first because chasing anything about 250-260 is much harder in the Finals.
• Pakistan historically is an awful chaser.   With an added pressure of chasing in the Finals , could have put them under even more pressure.
• Kohli picked his bowlers to squeeze the opposition  - which would have worked better had he batted first and and then put around 300 on the board and put the squeeze on .   Why making his batsman feel the heat of chasing a good score , make the other team do the hard job !
• Horrible team selection  -  No rotation of bowlers , Ashwin bowled 10 ,  Did not bowl Yuvi , Did not include Umesh .  Sarfaraz brought in Shadab , previous game had Rumman .  This is rotation - picking players based on which team he's playing .

[zen]

12 minutes ago, bleaf27 said:

Random Comparison would be Comparing Morgan and Smith - again your analytical skills give it away so ill simplify

Comparing Kohli   - Who has been touted as an amazing captain , Leading a team filled with superstars favorites to win the CT  - Goliath

Sarfaraz captaining a number 8 ranked team with no superstars and 5-6 uncapped players , not expected to make it to the finals -  David 

Hence , the comparison   - I think I simplified it for you enough.

 

• When in a final , most teams tend to bat first.  Any analyst will argue in favor of bating first because chasing anything about 250-260 is much harder in the Finals.
• Pakistan historically is an awful chaser.   With an added pressure of chasing in the Finals , could have put them under even more pressure.
• Kohli picked his bowlers to squeeze the opposition  - which would have worked better had he batted first and and then put around 300 on the board and put the squeeze on .   Why making his batsman feel the heat of chasing a good score , make the other team do the hard job !
• Horrible team selection  -  No rotation of bowlers , Ashwin bowled 10 ,  Did not bowl Yuvi , Did not include Umesh .  Sarfaraz brought in Shadab , previous game had Rumman .  This is rotation - picking players based on which team he's playing .

 

It is a random comparison because if Kohli was captaining Pak, he could have acted differently, and if Sarfaraz was captaining Ind, he could have done what Kohli did 

 

By saying that both teams had different priorities and team set up, you are suggesting that this is not an apples to apples comparison 

 

2nd, Pak did not win the toss so it is hard to say what it would have done. Going by the trend, it would have batted 2nd too 

 

Kohli did make some poor choices but that does not make Sarfaraz a better captain. If Bumrah had got that guy early, we don't know what the story could have been    

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by zen

[bleaf27]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

 

It is a random comparison because if Kohli was captaining Pak, he could have acted differently, and if Sarfaraz was captaining Ind, he could have done what Kohli did 

 

2nd, Pak did not win the toss so it is hard to say what it would have done. Going by the trend, it would have batted 2nd too 

 

Don't bother with what my analytical skills are. My shoes are worth more than what you can bring to the table  

 

We compare with what we have right .   When you compare something you compare them on what cards they are dealt with , not what it could have been ....  .   Both captains knew their strengths / weaknesses  -   how both the captains played the cards they were dealt is what's being questioned....

 

Listen to Sarfaraz post match interview - you'll get the answer

 

Your shoes are worth more than what I can bring to the table ?  Your shoes are more than my shoes is t hat what you are implying or are your shoes worth more than my analytical skills  ?  Now that is surely a nonsensical comparison ...

[zen]

7 minutes ago, bleaf27 said:

We compare with what we have right .   When you compare something you compare them on what cards they are dealt with , not what it could have been ....  .   Both captains knew their strengths / weaknesses  -   how both the captains played the cards they were dealt is what's being questioned....

 

Listen to Sarfaraz post match interview - you'll get the answer

 

Your shoes are worth more than what I can bring to the table ?  Your shoes are more than my shoes is t hat what you are implying or are your shoes worth more than my analytical skills  ?  Now that is surely a nonsensical comparison ...

Nope. That gets you laughed out of the room in the real world .... By saying that both teams had different priorities and team set up, you are suggesting that this is not an apples to apples comparison 

 

Appears as if even understanding the shoe example, along with the parallels drawn with it to your dumb comparison, will take you some time

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by zen

[bleaf27]

Just now, zen said:

Nope. That gets you laughed out of the room in the real world .... By saying that both teams had different priorities and team set up, you are suggesting that this is not an apples to apples comparison 

 

Appears as if even understanding the shoe example will take you some time

 

Every sports team  has different players / abilities / qualities -  you make the situations best suited to you and that's where Kohli missed the ball .....Your lack of logic cannot even comprehend that and that's baffling.   

Definitely , the shoe example will take me forever , maybe it's lack of your ability to write in a concise manner , quite possibly why half of your posts don't make much sense. 

[zen]

18 minutes ago, bleaf27 said:

Every sports team  has different players / abilities / qualities -  you make the situations best suited to you and that's where Kohli missed the ball .....Your lack of logic cannot even comprehend that and that's baffling.   

Definitely , the shoe example will take me forever , maybe it's lack of your ability to write in a concise manner , quite possibly why half of your posts don't make much sense. 

Ind did reach the final. Many of its players did well in the competition. Rohit, Dhawan, Pandya, Bhuvi, Bumrah, etc. all have had a good tournament. Did Ind reach final without any contributions from captain Kohli?

 

Your conclusions appear to be based on the results in this competition, so Sarfaraz will have to be the best captain in the world as Pak won. And Kohli 2nd best. Mortaza would better than Aus and NZ captain as BD qualified ahead of them. Morgan better than Mortaza because Eng finished ahead of BD in Grp A. So please also arrange SL, SA, Aus and NZ captains for us .... So is Kohli the 2nd best ODI captain the world then?

 

Look forward to laughing at your response 

Edited June 18, 2017 by zen

[bleaf27]

Just now, zen said:

Ind did reach the final. Many of its players did well in the competition. Rohit, Dhawan, Pandya, Bhuvi, Bumrah, etc. all have had a good tournament. Did Ind reach final without any contributions from captain Kohli?

 

Since you are going by what happened in the final, your conclusions appear to be based on the results in this competition, Sarfaraz will have to be the best captain in the world. And Kohli 2nd best. Mortaza would better than  Aus and NZ captain as BD qualified ahead of them. Morgan better than Mortaza because Eng finished ahead of BD. So please also arrange SL, SA, Aus and NZ captains.

 

So is Kohli the 2nd best ODI captain the world then?

 

Look forward to laughing at your response 

Will give you many laughs - stupidity is the key to laughter so buckle up ...

 

India was expected to reach the final -  We under achieved -  how the tournament unfolded and India got matched up with Pakistan in the Final - we should have gone all the way -   We did not even play Australia / England on our way to the Finals -  thus making it to the final was the least this team could have achieved and the matches we had in our way.

You are exactly the reason why mediocrity like Rohit Sharma and Yuvraj is praised  - bossing against BD/SL and having inflated numbers against teams which gives no competition.

 

Again , who told you that this is based upon what happened solely in the finals ?   Kohli's horrendous captaincy was on display since the starting .   

SL emabarrased his captaincy  and team selection

BD embarassed his captaincy his team selection -  a lucky part time bowler picked a wicket , until then BD was milking his specialist spinners at 6 RPO

It is hard to say whether Sarfaraz is the best captain in the world but with the limited players and untested team he is leading - he certainly would be if they remain consistent.  No star players in that team  -  but he is making his team fight like Dhoni did 10 years ago.

 

I am not ranking captains , Sarfaraz out captained Kohli in this CT considerably .  Quite straightforward 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, bleaf27 said:

Will give you many laughs - stupidity is the key to laughter so buckle up ...

 

India was expected to reach the final -  We under achieved -  how the tournament unfolded and India got matched up with Pakistan in the Final - we should have gone all the way -   We did not even play Australia / England on our way to the Finals -  thus making it to the final was the least this team could have achieved and the matches we had in our way.

You are exactly the reason why mediocrity like Rohit Sharma and Yuvraj is praised  - bossing against BD/SL and having inflated numbers against teams which gives no competition.

 

Again , who told you that this is based upon what happened solely in the finals ?   Kohli's horrendous captaincy was on display since the starting .   

SL emabarrased his captaincy  and team selection

BD embarassed his captaincy his team selection -  a lucky part time bowler picked a wicket , until then BD was milking his specialist spinners at 6 RPO

It is hard to say whether Sarfaraz is the best captain in the world but with the limited players and untested team he is leading - he certainly would be if they remain consistent.  No star players in that team  -  but he is making his team fight like Dhoni did 10 years ago.

 

I am not ranking captains , Sarfaraz out captained Kohli in this CT considerably .  Quite straightforward 

Tell me if you think that Ind was expected to reach the final and it did, how did it underachieve? Appears as if Ind was supposed to roll over SA too 

 

Then you are saying that Sarfaraz would certainly be the best captain in the world if Pak remains consistent. But you are ignoring Ind's consistency, i.e. ranked higher than Pak 

 

You also talk about SL embarrassing Kohli's captaincy so does it mean that Kohli embarrassed Sarfaraz and ABDV's captaincy in the group games as those teams appeared clueless against Ind?  

 

Whether Sarfaraz out captained Kolhi means nothing if we are not looking at all the captains holistically 

 

Come on, give us some more laughs 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dark_profile]

I'll say it, Delhi lads are arrogant, overconfident and emotional. I guess it's because of their traumatic partition-past. They have a chip on their shoulders. Gambhir, Sehwag, Kohli... good batsmen, but just can't keep their heads down and dig it through quietly. They suffer from "all or nothing" thinking. We need a captain who isn't bogged down by all this baggage of the past. Talent is a bottleneck in captaincy. Dhoni was never talented when it came to hitting cricketing shots. That inadequacy gave him the wisdom to keep his head down, play his cards well and stretch it to the extent possible. "Langda Tyagi" is the archetype I'd recommend for a captain. Someone like Javed Miandad. A humble bastard who projects himself as victim but slaps you in the face when you least expect.

Edited June 18, 2017 by dark_profile

[Pollack]

None of these.

[bleaf27]

7 minutes ago, zen said:

Tell me if you think that Ind was expected to reach the final and it did, how did it underachieve? Appears as if Ind was supposed to roll over SA too 

 

Then you are saying that Sarfaraz would certainly be the best captain in the world if Pak remains consistent. But you are ignoring Ind's consistency, i.e. ranked higher than Pak 

 

You also talk about SL embarrassing Kohli's captaincy so does it mean that Kohli embarrassed Sarfaraz and ABDV's captaincy in the group games as those teams appeared clueless against Ind?  

 

Whether Sarfaraz out captained Kolhi means nothing if we are not looking at all the captains holistically 

 

Come on, give us some more laughs 

 

 

 

 

 

 

India was expected to win the CT , was expected to reach it at a minimum   =   Thus the underachievement. 

If let's say Pakistan W/L ratio is 60 %   and India's W/L ration is 60 % and  Pak hasp layers like Fakhar , Shoaib Malik and Hafeez and India has warlords like Rohit Sharma , Bhuvi and Dhawan  then definitely Sarfaraz is the better captain  -  he is giving the same results with much lesser resources. 

With the Team India had , ofcourse they were expected to win against Pak  -  ( see how underachievement) comes in again .

[zen]

38 minutes ago, bleaf27 said:

India was expected to win the CT , was expected to reach it at a minimum   =   Thus the underachievement. 

If let's say Pakistan W/L ratio is 60 %   and India's W/L ration is 60 % and  Pak hasp layers like Fakhar , Shoaib Malik and Hafeez and India has warlords like Rohit Sharma , Bhuvi and Dhawan  then definitely Sarfaraz is the better captain  -  he is giving the same results with much lesser resources. 

With the Team India had , ofcourse they were expected to win against Pak  -  ( see how underachievement) comes in again .

You are not answering the questions asked.  Anyways, will not force you  

 

FYI, in KO games, any team can win on a given day. Otherwise a stronger team would have always won a tourney. If you look at CT's history, it has been won by underdogs / dark horses as well .... Using your argument for Sarfaraz, Mortaza out captained others too. While Smith, ABDV, Morgan, Williamson, etc. are whatever you may want to call 

 

If you want to praize Sarfaraz go ahead. If you want to criticize Kohli, go ahead. But don't create such random meaningless threads to troll 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by zen

[bleaf27]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

You are not answering the questions asked.  Anyways, will not force you  

 

FYI, all KO games are 50/50. Otherwise a stronger team would always win a tourney. If you look at CT's history, it has been won by underdogs / dark horses as well .... Using your argument for Sarfaraz, Mortaza out captained others too. While Smith, ABDV, Morgan, Williamson, etc. are whatever you may want to call 

 

If you want to praize Sarfaraz go ahead. If you want to criticize Kohli, go ahead. But don't create such random meaningless threads to troll 

 

 

Any KO game / or a boxing match / UFC /MMA  is all a knockout game - Ever heard the concept of odds in favor or against - betting ?   That's a simplified version for you to realize who's the favorite to win.   Well ofcourse certain captains did utilize their resources better and Sarfaraz did that considerably better -  his side was the most internationally inexperienced side in the tournament. 

 

This isn't a troll thread  - This is to compare the captaincy of two teams that made it toe finals and were on opposite spectrums - Hence the title and hence the reason people are putting their views and opinion on the poll .  If you have nothing to say towards the question in concern , you posting in this thread is quite redundant.

[zen]

1 minute ago, bleaf27 said:

Any KO game / or a boxing match / UFC /MMA  is all a knockout game - Ever heard the concept of odds in favor or against - betting ?   That's a simplified version for you to realize who's the favorite to win.   Well ofcourse certain captains did utilize their resources better and Sarfaraz did that considerably better -  his side was the most internationally inexperienced side in the tournament. 

 

This isn't a troll thread  - This is to compare the captaincy of two teams that made it toe finals and were on opposite spectrums - Hence the title and hence the reason people are putting their views and opinion on the poll .  If you have nothing to say towards the question in concern , you posting in this thread is quite redundant.

In CT, favs have not won all the time. In fact, in this tournament both BD and Pak made it to the SF

 

Ind did reach the final, did beat Pak and SA in the group games where the two teams looked clueless. You havn't praised Kohli's captaincy there. Vs BD, Ind played superbly to win by a handsome margin, while Pak was in a spot of bother at one stage vs Eng 

 

Ppl putting their views are ignorant about your trolling habits and put their thoughts w/o considering your intensions to somehow attack players of Ind team