coffee_rules Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: common sense says that which gets used most frequently in history has greater historical usage and greater cultural history. Sorry but no. Remembering history is key to having a civilizational narrative. My issue is our people forgot their history and have no historical consciousness and it’s a civilizational flaw that plenty of other conquered people don’t have. The Greeks didn’t forget Byzantium despite 8 centuries of direct ottoman rule. Jews didn’t forget their history despite being scattered. Neither did the Chinese. But Indians did, Iranians did, Sri Lankan’s did, etc. There is no shame in admitting our cultural weaknesses and rectifying them. Thank you for proving my point that your entire position is anti history and anti cultural history. Wrong analogy. Where are the Greeks and Persians now? Romans and Greek civilizations were wiped by Christianity as they burnt all pagan culture. Also Persians Zoroastrians lost out to Muslims in a similar way. Jews and Indians were scattered and hence survived. RomansGreeks were as old as Vedic civilization. We have survived because we were scattered and remembered our history for generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, zen said: Which means zilch if not preferred and if nuances of perspective/context not understood no amount of nuance and contextualizing will change the past and the fact that what dominated our past, defines our cultural history more. Quote Remembering or not remembering history is not a concern at all it is. It’s a far bigger concern than picking a name you like coz u just feel like it. I am sure your ancestors would’ve been glad to know that you consider remembering our history and civilizational history to be of no consequence at all. Quote What you have proved is that you need a psychological evaluation Sorry but I have proven, thanks to you, that your entire position is anti Indian history and anti Indian cultural legacy. Hence India >> bharat. And always will be. Edited March 24, 2020 by Muloghonto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, coffee_rules said: Wrong analogy. Where are the Greeks and Persians now? Romans and Greek civilizations were wiped by Christianity as they burnt all pagan culture. Also Persians Zoroastrians lost out to Muslims in a similar way. Jews and Indians were scattered and hence survived. RomansGreeks were as old as Vedic civilization. We have survived because we were scattered and remembered our history for generations. We were scattered ?? Lol. Greeks did remember their history of Alexander, the diadochi period, Roman conquest, etc. Despite being conquered by Christianity and then Islam. This proves that being conquered is no excuse to forget ones history. Nobody conquered the Tamils or mallus till literally the British. Yet they forgot about kalabhras. It’s because our civilization has been dominated by the likes of zen who think remembering history is of no concern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 21 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: no amount of nuance and contextualizing will change the past and the fact that what dominated our past, defines our cultural history more. nuances/context explain what went into making an event/history Quote it is. It’s a far bigger concern than picking a name you like coz u just feel like it. I am sure your ancestors would’ve been glad to know that you consider remembering our history and civilizational history to be of no consequence at all. There are no issues here at all whatsoever except in your imagination Quote Sorry but I have proven, thanks to you, that your entire position is anti Indian history and anti Indian cultural legacy. Hence India >> bharat. And always will be. In your imagination .... but if you think that you have proven something, let's see you provide your name and position Quote No, because what is relevant to history is what it was. If donkey was used way more often, then donkey is more historically relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 13 minutes ago, zen said: nuances/context explain what went into making an event/history doesmt change the fact that which dominates history, is of greater historicity. 13 minutes ago, zen said: There are no issues here at all whatsoever except in your imagination forgetting ones history is an issue to many of us. 13 minutes ago, zen said: In your imagination .... but if you think that you have proven something, let's see you provide your name and position you have said yourself that what s remembered or not remembered is of no consequence. Therefore you are saying remembering your ancestors and history is of no consequence. Busted. 13 minutes ago, zen said: Facts don’t care about your feelings. That which is more prevalent in history is more historical. Simple. Your example backfired and now you can only laugh but present no logical counter. As usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: doesmt change the fact that which dominates history, is of greater historicity. but irrelevant if not from the right perspective Quote forgetting ones history is an issue to many of us. Could be for some .... also whether history is really forgotten (legitimacy of your claim), how relevant it is (even an issue if forgotten), etc. remain unanswered .... with a sensible poster, I could have taken up this points but not with an unidimensional clueless wonder like you Quote you have said yourself that what s remembered or not remembered is of no consequence. Therefore you are saying remembering your ancestors and history is of no consequence. Busted. Remembering and not remembering has various nuances Quote Facts don’t care about your feelings. That which is more prevalent in history is more historical. Simple. Your example backfired and now you can only laugh but present no logical counter. As usual. Human being care about feelings .... a comment like you made below is usually made by someone with a childish brain or a psychological imbalance Quote No, because what is relevant to history is what it was. If donkey was used way more often, then donkey is more historically relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, zen said: but irrelevant if not from the right perspective facts are facts, facts don’t care about right or wrong perspective. What is historically more prevalent is a fact and it is a fact that what is more prevalent historically is more definitive historically. 14 minutes ago, zen said: Could be for some .... also whether history is really forgotten (legitimacy of your claim), how relevant it is (even an issue if forgotten), etc. remain unanswered .... with a sensible poster, I could have taken up this points but not with an unidimensional clueless wonder like you waving white flag before even the battle, just like some of our coward ancestors, we see. 14 minutes ago, zen said: Remembering and not remembering has various nuances a fail is a fail. Failure to remember is a failure to remember. You said remembering or not remembering is of no consequence- meaning or history is of no consequence to you. Thus proving my point that you don’t care about our history. 14 minutes ago, zen said: Human being care about feelings .... a comment like you made below is usually made by someone with a childish brain or a psychological imbalance It’s made by one who cares for objective facts and don’t use feelings to hide or twist facts like you do. 14 minutes ago, zen said: Nice counter. Aka I win by default, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: facts are facts, facts don’t care about right or wrong perspective. What is historically more prevalent is a fact and it is a fact that what is more prevalent historically is more definitive historically. waving white flag before even the battle, just like some of our coward ancestors, we see. a fail is a fail. Failure to remember is a failure to remember. You said remembering or not remembering is of no consequence- meaning or history is of no consequence to you. Thus proving my point that you don’t care about our history. It’s made by one who cares for objective facts and don’t use feelings to hide or twist facts like you do. Nice counter. Aka I win by default, thanks. mature human beings try to understand what goes behind facts .... for an immature mind like you a horse could be a donkey as it is called donkey more by someone who does not want the horse to think of it a horse. For a mature mind, it is a horse and has a right to be called what it pleases to ask for a better future But yeah, one cannot expect sense from a guy who writes (probably from a mental asylum): Quote No, because what is relevant to history is what it was. If donkey was used way more often, then donkey is more historically relevant. I doubt if anyone takes you seriously here Edited March 24, 2020 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Muloghonto said: We were scattered ?? Lol. Greeks did remember their history of Alexander, the diadochi period, Roman conquest, etc. Despite being conquered by Christianity and then Islam. This proves that being conquered is no excuse to forget ones history. Nobody conquered the Tamils or mallus till literally the British. Yet they forgot about kalabhras. It’s because our civilization has been dominated by the likes of zen who think remembering history is of no concern What good is Greek Roman and Persian history being remembered in museums and mausoleums, while ours is a living civilization? Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 12 hours ago, coffee_rules said: What good is Greek Roman and Persian history being remembered in museums and mausoleums, while ours is a living civilization? Think about it. How does that relate to the point that they are way better at remembering history than us and we have to rectify it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 15 hours ago, zen said: mature human beings try to understand what goes behind facts .... for an immature mind like you a horse could be a donkey as it is called donkey more by someone who does not want the horse to think of it a horse. For a mature mind, it is a horse and has a right to be called what it pleases to ask for a better future mature human beings don’t ignore facts and history because they were brutal or unsavoury. For a mature mind, the past is an objective fact: if you have called a horse a donkey for 2000 years, then objective fact is, it’s identity is that of a donkey for 2000 years. It’s pleasure or displeasure is irrelevant to this fact. Not to mention, more than one person has made it clear that unlike your horse and donkey example, we LIKE the tag India and we WANT it to define us. 15 hours ago, zen said: But yeah, one cannot expect sense from a guy who writes (probably from a mental asylum): I doubt if anyone takes you seriously here That’s why my posts in this threads have more likes than yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Muloghonto said: mature human beings don’t ignore facts and history because they were brutal or unsavoury. For a mature mind, the past is an objective fact: if you have called a horse a donkey for 2000 years, then objective fact is, it’s identity is that of a donkey for 2000 years. It’s pleasure or displeasure is irrelevant to this fact. Not to mention, more than one person has made it clear that unlike your horse and donkey example, we LIKE the tag India and we WANT it to define us. That’s why my posts in this threads have more likes than yours mature beings understand the information behind "facts" .... while immature ones, who cannot deep dive, post: Quote No, because what is relevant to history is what it was. If donkey was used way more often, then donkey is more historically relevant. Edited March 24, 2020 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Muloghonto said: How does that relate to the point that they are way better at remembering history than us and we have to rectify it ? What use is it to glorify civilizations in museums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 22 hours ago, zen said: mature beings understand the information behind "facts" .... while immature ones, who cannot deep dive, post: Understanding facts don’t change the facts. The why doesn’t change the is. Your cultural identity history is whatever has been used most often historically by you and others. No amount of trying to twist this simple fact will change the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Came to laugh at the random "spam" comments. Disappointed slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 21 hours ago, coffee_rules said: What use is it to glorify civilizations in museums? Is that why you specifically side stepped my example of Jews and Chinese ?? Their civilization is intact. Like us, China got invaded a bazillion times and ruled by invaders who butchered them. And worse than us, most Jews got kicked out of their homeland and lived like Dalits in a boonie village of India. Yet they remember their history. We don’t. Why are you so afraid to admit the simple fact that hindus and Indians totally suck at remembering their history ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 18 minutes ago, sandeep said: Came to laugh at the random "spam" comments. Disappointed slightly. Ok. Spam sandeep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: Understanding facts don’t change the facts. The why doesn’t change the is. Your cultural identity history is whatever has been used most often historically by you and others. No amount of trying to twist this simple fact will change the fact. Understanding facts and perspective allow to take better decisions .... As explained a simpleton like you will not understand the deeper concepts and rely on irrelevant criterias and when, as explained, even a brand new term can be coined .... and of course will posts things such as below: Quote No, because what is relevant to history is what it was. If donkey was used way more often, then donkey is more historically relevant. Edited March 25, 2020 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, zen said: Understanding facts and perspective allows to take better decisions .... As explained a simpleton like you will not understand the deeper concepts and rely on pointless criterias and when, as explained, even a brand new term can be coined ... and posts things such as below: As expected, a simpleton with no arguments has nothing cogent to contribute against the simple fact THAT WHICH DOMINATES YOUR HISTORY, IS YOUR HISTORY. taking better decisions and learning from history involves not modifying history due to your own insecurities and learning history objectively. a brand new term can be coined and that brand new term will not be representing cultural heritage because cultural heritage is determined by past prevalence, not whitewashing the past. you can only laugh because you have zero logical counter to the simple factual statement. Like your whole logically vacant position on India just because you are a historically ignorant Hindu who wants an historically obscure modern times popularized term like bharat to dominate because of your cosmetic needs.shame !! Edited March 25, 2020 by Muloghonto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: As expected, a simpleton with no arguments has nothing cogent to contribute against the simple fact THAT WHICH DOMINATES YOUR HISTORY, IS YOUR HISTORY. taking better decisions and learning from history involves not modifying history due to your own insecurities and learning history objectively. That shows you have zero originality. If someone calls you a simpleton, you respond by calling them simpleton .... you have no other concepts other than "history", maybe a subject you spent too much unwarranted time on Quote a brand new term can be coined and that brand new term will not be representing cultural heritage because cultural heritage is determined by past prevalence, not whitewashing the past. Already explained that there are multiple ways of aligning with culture .... and folly of unnecessarily imagining past being whitewashed .... in short, every statement and assumption of yours is a hogwash .... but again what can you expect from someone who types: Quote No, because what is relevant to history is what it was. If donkey was used way more often, then donkey is more historically relevant. Edited March 25, 2020 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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