Indian cricket Baap ki Jaagir

[raki05]

9 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

 on what basis are you saying that.. please tell us how karthik is better o_0 option and backup with some stats how karthik offers this team more than Dhoni with his Batting/keeping/co-captain. 

As i said before i m only talkin abt batting ....and karthik himself is so pathetic, but at this moment i can bank on him to score more quickly thn dhoni in 8 out of 10 times against any opponent and in any condition and it doesnt mean karthik is even good batsmen. Besides co- captaining  an all are overrated it doesnt win u anything substsntial, if kohli cant captain himself he shoul d pass it to someone who can do it better, but certainly we cant orovide an extra slot for cocaptaining.

Edited November 12, 2017 by raki05

[Rasgulla]

11 minutes ago, raki05 said:

He is not the only problem , but he is already on wrong side of the age, so chopping should start from him.

So we are judging player only because of his age.  sachin played till 38 or 39 what ya got to say about that ?

[Ankit_sharma03]

14 minutes ago, raki05 said:

He is embarrsing himself while batting is quite visible to everyone. I dont think it require any proof, its all about how you percieve the situation for u he is still better but for me anyone who cant win anything for the team in past 2 year doesnt deserve to be in team and m talking abt batsmen here.

really......i have many top players in worst form failing to touch the ball and thats embarssing

IF dhoni played a embarssing knock in WI so did karthik.......

Karthik hasnt even earned his place back and dhoni still at his down fall has won us games in last year or 2 

 

U havent seen top players in worst form embarrassing themselves .........he is way better then them 

 

About the bold part well u have been sleeping in past 2 yrs i guess

[Ankit_sharma03]

15 minutes ago, raki05 said:

He is not the only problem , but he is already on wrong side of the age, so chopping should start from him.

Age .........he is still fitter then many youngsters. Even the fittest of cricketers like raina, yuvi, rohit has had a drop in fitness.....dhoni is still bloody fit . 

 

contributes with wk, captaincy, guiding young spinners. 

Agreed he needs to go in t20 but Odi he is still better then most.

[raki05]

Just now, Rasgulla said:

So we are judging player only because of his age.  sachin played till 38 or 39 what ya got to say about that ?

So just because sachin played till 38 dhoni should play as well...is it some kind of childs play you did it now i ll also do . 2 wrong ll never make a right, dhoni has nothing to offee now in internationol cricket, however he can elongate his career unnecessarily like other past greats and spoil any chance of india being competitive in upcoming wc.

[Rasgulla]

5 minutes ago, raki05 said:

As i said before i m only talkin abt batting ....and karthik himself is so pathetic, but at this moment i can bank on him to score more quickly thn dhoni in 8 out of 10 times against any opponent and in any condition and it doesnt mean karthik is even good batsmen. Besides co- captaining  an all are overrated it doesnt win u anything substsntial, if kohli cant captain himself he shoul d pass it to someone who can do it better, but certainly we cant orovide an extra slot for cocaptaining.

Karthik stats says some other things..His stats are a joke for a guy who played over 70 matches. Do you know whats his SR and average ?

 

KOHLI - No one except him plays all 3 formats and split captaincy doesn't work in IND cricket. So who are you thinking off ? 

 

Rohit - 2 or 3 bad series he can be dropped any moment.. Doesn't play tests and prob needs his MI management to make any decisions. 

 

Dhawan - keeps getting dropped every 6 months

 

Rahane - could be captain for Tests.. Many believe he shouldn't even be in limited overs so ruled out for LOIs captaincy. 

 

Kohli - plays all 3 formats and only visible option

 

Pandey kedar and Iyer - mehh bot even a chance

 

Jaddu ashwin - Not in Odis

 

Bhuvi - too soft of a trudler to be a captain

 

Bumraj -  not a chance 

 

So what are the realistic options of someone other than kohli ? Answer is nobody. Let's live in reality Kohli ll stay for next 7 years as captain for sure. We have no realistic options at the moment. 

[raki05]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

really......i have many top players in worst form failing to touch the ball and thats embarssing

IF dhoni played a embarssing knock in WI so did karthik.......

Karthik hasnt even earned his place back and dhoni still at his down fall has won us games in last year or 2 

 

U havent seen top players in worst form embarrassing themselves .........he is way better then them 

 

About the bold part well u have been sleeping in past 2 yrs i guess

Name 3 or 4 inning where he played main role in india victory.....in past 2 years if top order has failed we lost major chunk of matches and then we blame top order saying wht the poor dhoni could have done alone. I said it many times in my previous post karthik should no where near to indian team and so does Dhoni.

[raki05]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Age .........he is still fitter then many youngsters. Even the fittest of cricketers like raina, yuvi, rohit has had a drop in fitness.....dhoni is still bloody fit . 

 

contributes with wk, captaincy, guiding young spinners. 

Agreed he needs to go in t20 but Odi he is still better then most.

Fitness doesnt win u matches....batting and bowling does....i will always take ok fit but good batsmen

[raki05]

3 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

Karthik stats says some other things..His stats are a joke for a guy who played over 70 matches. Do you know whats his SR and average ?

 

KOHLI - No one except him plays all 3 formats and split captaincy doesn't work in IND cricket. So who are you thinking off ? 

 

Rohit - 2 or 3 bad series he can be dropped any moment.. Doesn't play tests and prob needs his MI management to make any decisions. 

 

Dhawan - keeps getting dropped every 6 months

 

Rahane - could be captain for Tests.. Many believe he shouldn't even be in limited overs so ruled out for LOIs captaincy. 

 

Kohli - plays all 3 formats and only visible option

 

Pandey kedar and Iyer - mehh bot even a chance

 

Jaddu ashwin - Not in Odis

 

Bhuvi - too soft of a trudler to be a captain

 

Bumraj -  not a chance 

 

So what are the realistic options of someone other than kohli ? Answer is nobody. Let's live in reality Kohli ll stay for next 7 years as captain for sure. We have no realistic options at the moment. 

Ever since rohit started opening i dont think he has been ever dropped from odi, we can definetely try him for odi. Btw wht do u say just becsuse kohli cant captain dhoni should play for ever for babysitting.Thats the lamest execuse to justify anyone position in the team.

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Name 3 or 4 inning where he played main role in india victory.....in past 2 years if top order has failed we lost major chunk of matches and then we blame top order saying wht the poor dhoni could have done alone. I said it many times in my previous post karthik should no where near to indian team and so does Dhoni.

batting at his position its always tough to be in main role most times . 

 

79 vs aus 2017

49* vs SL 

67 vs SL

78* vs WI

134 vs eng

 

80 vs NZ in 2016

92 vs SA

 

Now take his contributions out of those games and try winning it . Even in the game were his partners have scored runs they alone wudnt have won it....i hope u have seen enough cricket to understand the worth of partnership. His 91 didnt alone win u Wc

Its mostly rare single handed effort win u games . Take 2 of oustanding innings 139 vs aus and 113 vs pak we ended up loosing 

 

 

 

[Rasgulla]

3 minutes ago, raki05 said:

So just because sachin played till 38 dhoni should play as well...is it some kind of childs play you did it now i ll also do . 2 wrong ll never make a right, dhoni has nothing to offee now in internationol cricket, however he can elongate his career unnecessarily like other past greats and spoil any chance of india being competitive in upcoming wc.

It wasn't supposed to be straight comparison but I was just saying how age doesn't mean anything as long as they are fit. Anyway Let's talk about  highlighted part. Kohli feels he helps him with captaincy and many of them openly came out and said how Dhoni helps them out from kedar pandey pandya chahal to bhuvi. So how can he say he offers nothing to the team ? Keeper + co-captain + lot of experience in critical stages of matches + batsmen with 2nd Highest runs in 2017(average,SR). So if he doesn't offer anything I dont know how rest of them even fit in the squad. Reality is karthik is No option for replacement either. With WC 1 and half away would you gamble with some new kid ? We all saw how Iyer batted other day. He is still raw takes times to get used to it. Once Dhoni gone after 2019 or 2020 wc they ll be looking to give someone else a chance to prepare them for next WC or whatever. It's just a harsh reality... 

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Fitness doesnt win u matches....batting and bowling does....i will always take ok fit but good batsmen

i have given u scores above ..........infact he has been 2nd 3rd highest scorer of indian team in recent times. Now be fair ask for other peoples place as well since ur going on performance only 

[Rasgulla]

3 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Ever since rohit started opening i dont think he has been ever dropped from odi, we can definetely try him for odi. Btw wht do u say just becsuse kohli cant captain dhoni should play for ever for babysitting.Thats the lamest execuse to justify anyone position in the team.

Who promoted him to open ? Can you get me exact date and how that changed our CT2013..  I am now convinced you missed lot of cricket in past few years. Rohit won't get captaincy unless kohli is rested for series in between. You are dulutional to even think they ll give Rohit captaincy when Kohli is still around and Rohit is almost 31 his decline ll start in 2 to 3 years then what ? 

[raki05]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

batting at his position its always tough to be in main role most times . 

 

79 vs aus 2017

49* vs SL 

67 vs SL

78* vs WI

134 vs eng

 

80 vs NZ in 2016

92 vs SA

 

Now take his contributions out of those games and try winning it . Even in the game were his partners have scored runs they alone wudnt have won it....i hope u have seen enough cricket to understand the worth of partnership. His 91 didnt alone win u Wc

Its mostly rare single handed effort win u games . Take 2 of oustanding innings 139 vs aus and 113 vs pak we ended up loosing 

 

 

 

Great memory u have i  must say...as i said he can only play as a supporter but it can not define outcome of matches now see the contribution of his partners in all these matches, i think in all these games aggresor was his partners. If anything comes to dhoni he never ever try to look for a win ex....wc df15, after top order collapse he just played for his fifty, never even trid for once to win.... ct 17 final top order collapse, heck even for small stay pandya atleast tried.i bet u if situation like tht ll come u cant cont on dhoni to even try for victory in such imp matches, though he can play for his 50 to boost his average for some fans to be happy abt it.

[Rasgulla]

5 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Great memory u have i  must say...as i said he can only play as a supporter but it can not define outcome of matches now see the contribution of his partners in all these matches, i think in all these games aggresor was his partners. If anything comes to dhoni he never ever try to look for a win ex....wc df15, after top order collapse he just played for his fifty, never even trid for once to win.... ct 17 final top order collapse, heck even for small stay pandya atleast tried.i bet u if situation like tht ll come u cant cont on dhoni to even try for victory in such imp matches, though he can play for his 50 to boost his average for some fans to be happy abt it.

I doubt even Rohit or kohli can win you matches if they were left with bowlers on other end. His AUS and PAK innings are just examples of that. Maybe you forgot you need 2 players to complete a run/runs. That aggressor and supporter roles are equally important to win you matches. If you have one aggressor and a bowler on other end doubt it same as having a batsmen who can hit LOL. It's important in a paternship and its not something thats happening in last few years. We have this kind of partnership since long time. Not sure if you remember series between india and PAK back in those days Yuvi and Dhoni were batting. They ripped them  Pakistani apart with such batting. Nvm you won't understand go on with your post telling us how karthik is a better fit and how Rohit who is almost 31 will be captain of some fantasy team called India.

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Great memory u have i  must say...as i said he can only play as a supporter but it can not define outcome of matches now see the contribution of his partners in all these matches, i think in all these games aggresor was his partners. If anything comes to dhoni he never ever try to look for a win ex....wc df15, after top order collapse he just played for his fifty, never even trid for once to win.... ct 17 final top order collapse, heck even for small stay pandya atleast tried.i bet u if situation like tht ll come u cant cont on dhoni to even try for victory in such imp matches, though he can play for his 50 to boost his average for some fans to be happy abt it.

Ill take a supporter even, ill tell u why . I knw he isnt a match winner but he is still a package 

 

A. i dnt any WK batsman who has performed in such a way that we can ohh dhoni is blocking someone way. Apart from karthik none has done enough in domestic or A games to even earn a national cap. NAtional caps shud be earned not given free

 

Now thats where dhoni adds things in his bag and makes his case powerful

1. Experienced senior player, In any team team dynamic thats is a much needed thing a senior experience player to guide youngster

2. A sound cricket brain...........who would want that 

3. Gr8 when it comes to stumping, We always talk about jonty rhoades fielding creating chances in dhoni's case he does with stumping. His speed actually creates a wicket many times which many keepers wudnt

4. Support well atleast he is doing that, if in most series he is our 2nd or 3rd highest scorer well then he cant be the biggest problem or else ur math is week 

5. A help in captaincy..............If a captain says a guy like dhoni is a gr8 help to him in his intial years of captaincy would he be given that point. 

6. Dhoni wasnt a gr8 captain to seamer but to spinners he was brilliant. He is helping our young spinners a lot.........

 

Now u dnt see these things on score card but these things matter a lot in team dynamics 

 

Scorecard dekha number dekha bol diya.......aur wo bhi galat . 

Bhai cricket is team game and it involves a lot of dynamics. 

 

Even if dhoni has become an avg player he is still adding a lot to the table. 

Had someone like yuvraj singh still kept on scoring runs may be with not same effectiveness , had been same or 10% lesser fielder bowled like he was in 2011 .........he to wud have been in the team and contributing. 

 

Ur saying suppourter- atleast against WI, SL , Aus, WC 2016 during collapses he failed but atleast he tried and grinding towards the goal unless many who threw wickets and ranaway. If others didnt even try how is dhoni the biggest problem...just becoz he is over 35.......

 

U talk bout numbers he is still avg 65 this yr with 85 s/r with 5-50s and 1-100 and ur saying he has done nothing 

 

 

Nehra is trying to explain the same thing in this video

 

[raki05]

27 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

It wasn't supposed to be straight comparison but I was just saying how age doesn't mean anything as long as they are fit. Anyway Let's talk about  highlighted part. Kohli feels he helps him with captaincy and many of them openly came out and said how Dhoni helps them out from kedar pandey pandya chahal to bhuvi. So how can he say he offers nothing to the team ? Keeper + co-captain + lot of experience in critical stages of matches + batsmen with 2nd Highest runs in 2017(average,SR). So if he doesn't offer anything I dont know how rest of them even fit in the squad. Reality is karthik is No option for replacement either. With WC 1 and half away would you gamble with some new kid ? We all saw how Iyer batted other day. He is still raw takes times to get used to it. Once Dhoni gone after 2019 or 2020 wc they ll be looking to give someone else a chance to prepare them for next WC or whatever. It's just a harsh reality... 

These meaningless bilateral with sl and wi would have been used to groom youngster...after wc 15 we should have tried that.....how many out of those runs which he scored in 17 were scored in ct 17. Biletral should be a benchmark to gauge youngsters not the senior pro like kohli, rohit , dhoni and sikhar.. as i mentioned now a days he only try to boost his stats by playing meaningless knock in meaningless biletral,however i dont do research on stats that much, this is just my observation without being biased tht dhoni time was up by wc 15 and we should have tried youngster. Please understand you can't replace a legend with equally good youngster immediately, hell even we dont have replacement for sachin, dravid and even laxman in test as of now but still we are doing good.you have to provide youngsters time and oppurtunity which we have already lost considerably.

[raki05]

16 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

I doubt even Rohit or kohli can win you matches if they were left with bowlers on other end. His AUS and PAK innings are just examples of that. Maybe you forgot you need 2 players to complete a run/runs. That aggressor and supporter roles are equally important to win you matches. If you have one aggressor and a bowler on other end doubt it same as having a batsmen who can hit LOL. It's important in a paternship and its not something thats happening in last few years. We have this kind of partnership since long time. Not sure if you remember series between india and PAK back in those days Yuvi and Dhoni were batting. They ripped them  Pakistani apart with such batting. Nvm you won't understand go on with your post telling us how karthik is a better fit and how Rohit who is almost 31 will be captain of some fantasy team called India.

I never compared dhoni of 2006 to dhoni of now. As i said after 15 no way dhoni should have stretched. U said before dhoni is helping this way that way, best way for him to provide help is groomin a younger keeper by playing alongside him after 15 wc when he was still a captain to have a better and smooth transition. Other than all the help which media create is farse and hype nothing else.

[raki05]

18 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Ill take a supporter even, ill tell u why . I knw he isnt a match winner but he is still a package 

 

A. i dnt any WK batsman who has performed in such a way that we can ohh dhoni is blocking someone way. Apart from karthik none has done enough in domestic or A games to even earn a national cap. NAtional caps shud be earned not given free

 

Now thats where dhoni adds things in his bag and makes his case powerful

1. Experienced senior player, In any team team dynamic thats is a much needed thing a senior experience player to guide youngster

2. A sound cricket brain...........who would want that 

3. Gr8 when it comes to stumping, We always talk about jonty rhoades fielding creating chances in dhoni's case he does with stumping. His speed actually creates a wicket many times which many keepers wudnt

4. Support well atleast he is doing that, if in most series he is our 2nd or 3rd highest scorer well then he cant be the biggest problem or else ur math is week 

5. A help in captaincy..............If a captain says a guy like dhoni is a gr8 help to him in his intial years of captaincy would he be given that point. 

6. Dhoni wasnt a gr8 captain to seamer but to spinners he was brilliant. He is helping our young spinners a lot.........

 

Now u dnt see these things on score card but these things matter a lot in team dynamics 

 

Scorecard dekha number dekha bol diya.......aur wo bhi galat . 

Bhai cricket is team game and it involves a lot of dynamics. 

 

Even if dhoni has become an avg player he is still adding a lot to the table. 

Had someone like yuvraj singh still kept on scoring runs may be with not same effectiveness , had been same or 10% lesser fielder bowled like he was in 2011 .........he to wud have been in the team and contributing. 

 

Ur saying suppourter- atleast against WI, SL , Aus, WC 2016 during collapses he failed but atleast he tried and grinding towards the goal unless many who threw wickets and ranaway. If others didnt even try how is dhoni the biggest problem...just becoz he is over 35.......

 

U talk bout numbers he is still avg 65 this yr with 85 s/r with 5-50s and 1-100 and ur saying he has done nothing 

 

 

Nehra is trying to explain the same thing in this video

 

May be wht u said is right and true i only see score ....whenever i saw our top order failed especially these 3 top order guys in any wc or ct matches post 15 it was done and dusted,may be dhoni has helped in all the aforementioned  way what u said but it was not enough to avoid humiliating  defeat and wht it shows, tht inspite of all the experience which he has we cant even get a fighting final or sf. So it clearly reflect middle order issue and he is there in middle order , youngsters are new and they ll take time, so definetely onus will come to him and he is not capable to provide those kind of performance  anymore, when it really needed. If u r showing Nehra interview, there are others interviews as well who says y he shouldnt continue anymore. I still say he is not the only problem but he is one of the major one.

[Rasgulla]

4 minutes ago, raki05 said:

I never compared dhoni of 2006 to dhoni of now. As i said after 15 no way dhoni should have stretched. U said before dhoni is helping this way that way, best way for him to provide help is groomin a younger keeper by playing alongside him after 15 wc when he was still a captain to have a better and smooth transition. Other than all the help which media create is farse and hype nothing else.

I never said you did.. I am talking about roles in the team Aggressor and supporter. At the end of the day he is still your 2nd or 3rd best player in 2017 so he is fine for now. Why would he groom some nobody after wc15 when he is doing well and he always had his head for 2019wc ? That's not his job. If you present captain is saying I need him for next WC then how is it even his fault ? Who did kohli even groom till now from 2014 he is still playing Dhoni's team in Tests!!!